Herron VTPH-2A Review

You ever had the chance to demo a Rogue Audio Ares Magnum? Curious how it stands up to the Herron. In a bit of a mind battle between these two to replace the Fosgate. Heard both are quite quiet but I don't have the luxury of demoing either where I am so I really rely on others opinions. Anyone can chime in that would be great! Thanks folks.

 

I'd have to think the specific tubes used in it would have a big effect on the end result. Therefore, certain tubes might give it more of a romantic lean or an edgier one, depending.

Which tubes are you using in your unit?

 

I am using the stock EH tubes. I tried rolling with Genelex Gold Lions and some NOS Mullards. It sounds best the way Keith Herron voiced it. I am selling those other tubes.

 

No, I've never heard it. To be honest I have no reason to audition any other phono stages. The Herron is my end game. The only thing I plan to upgrade now is my phono cartridge. Maybe at some point I'll upgrade my streamer, but that's low priority.

 

I've owned an Ares for over four years, I sent it to Rogue to perform the "Magnum" Upgrade. They use the Blue 1254 Cinemag Transformers in this upgrade. Bob's Devices uses a Blue Cinemag Transformer in his SUT's as well.

The onboard SUT and the separate Power Supply are a couple of the many good features of this Preamp. The Ares is very quiet and responds favorably to tube rolling, and very adjustable.

I have mine listed for sale, as I simply want to try something different. Maybe a Herron or a ModWright PH 9.0

The Ares has been in my set up longer that any other piece of gear I have, that's saying something (for me any way)

 

That is an interesting point.

A manufacturer has to sell a product at a price point. That price point should provide the best product that can be made for that particular price.

With tubes, there is modern manufacture vs. NOS. Some manufacturer's have gone out there and sourced large supplies of NOS tubes, to both allow for the manufacturing of new products with the NOS tubes and to keep their customer's resupplied for many years to come.

The other approach is to simply use tubes that are of modern manufacturer and are therefore readily available. This is the approach that most manufacturer's will take.

The three main considerations that a manufacturer must face in making a decision of which tube manufacture to buy from would be, is there a readily available supply, are they reliable and how will they make my product sound.

Assuming the supply is not a problem, lower cost tubes may not sound as good or last as long as a better made tube.

Higher priced tubes may or may not necessarily sound better, but may or may not last as longer than a medium priced tube. Using the higher priced will necessitate delivering a more expensive product to the end user, which would likely have a negative impact in sales.

If a manufacture finds a tube that is both reliable and will sound good in their product, it makes all the sense in the world to "voice" their product(s) using that particular tube(s).

The goal of the manufacturer is to make their product(s), sound and perform the best that their engineer's can possibly manufacture that product, and sell it at a specific price point.

I have Rogue amplifier's that are voiced with Electro Harmonic tubes, you have Herron products that are also voiced with Electro Harmonic tubes.

It does stand to reason, that both rogue products and Herron products, will or might sound their best with Electro Harmonic tubes.

I read on the forum's where people will swap tubes of new manufacture with NOS tubes, hoping for an improvement, only to discover the sound is now soft and has lost definition or other characteristics that it previously had.

Many new manufacture tubes have more extension on the top and on the bottom and are "tighter" sounding overall, but often at the expense of a more rich sounding midrange.

Tube rolling is not always the best thing to do, with regard to your audio gear.

 

What I found with tub rolling the Herron is they changed the sound, but they did not improve the sound. The Gold Lions made it brighter. I don't need that: it already has very smooth snd good treble extension. The Mullards softened the tone and and had a negative affect on the soundstage and resolution, so it made the Herron worse. Keith optimizes and voices his phonostage for and picks the tubes that are right for it. He is not the kind of person top take shortcuts to save money. He knows what he's doing. The excellence of the phonostage is enough evidence of that for me.

I'm done tube rolling. It's brought me no benefit and wasted money.

 

Interesting. I wonder if other Herron VTPH-2a owners are having the same findings...

EH tubes can be low budget which is never a bad thing - are these the EH tubes that came stock with the VTPH-2a? 12AX7 - Electro-Harmonix, Gold Pin ? The EH 12ax7's are definitely known for their low noise, which is very important to many 12AX7 Comparison of Current Made Tubes | Antique Electronic Supply

What matters is what works best for your ears though... I am all for the notion of not having to go down the tube rabbit hole though, it can be a never ending maze of twists and turns! In this hobby contentment is worth it's weight in gold!

 

The Herron comes with two 12AX7 and three 12AT7. IIRC the original 12AX7 were actually Svetlana tubes and when they had an issue Keith recommended the EH as an alternate. I went with the gold pin version. The original 12AT7 are the non-gold pin EH tubes.

I am aware of at least a couple Audiogon members that also trust Keith's voicing of the unit and don't roll tubes. There are others who have changed tubes. I believe I saw that someone liked some NOS Mullards, but maybe he has a very different system than me otherwise, or different Mullards. I really thought they diminished the SQ of my system and abandoned their use after I gave it a chance to break them in.

I'm perfectly happy with my Herron the way it is. I'd rather play records than go nuts chasing down improvements that are mostly nothing more than changes to the sound, sometimes to the detriment of overall performance.

 

Black plate RCA 12AX7s, in my experience, open up the soundstage and sound delightfully musical in every application I've tried them in... though I've never tried them in a Herron.

 

Thanks for the reply! Again, contentment is all that matters in this hobby!!

I found it interesting from the Herron manual http://www.herronaudio.com/images/VTPH2A_manual_web.pdf that you can actually vary the permutations of the 12ax7 and 12at7 to your liking in addition... very flexible architecture apparently.

Cheers.... I am currently eyeing up a Herron. I saw your post (on Audiogon or another site) from the timeframe you were looking at your next phono preamp, tried the JC3+, and ended up with the Herron. Conventional wisdom says you made a great choice.

 

Incorrect. There are two models depending on how much max gain you want ; 64db or 69db.

The manual is simply stating which slot each tube type should be inserted into depending on which of the two models you own.

 

Ahh, now that you say that I took a closer look and that seems to be the case - thanks for clarifying. I need to look a little closer next time, I did not delve in far enough and made an error in judgment.

 

No, @TheVinylAddict is correct in the first place. It's one model. If you use two 12AX7 plus three 12AT7 you get 60db gain. If you replace the 12AT7 with three 12AX7 you get the 68db gain. There are no other differences.

You just chose what you want when you order. Keith has told me the 60db version works for just about everything. It's low noise enough to handle low output cartridges too. I told him I might audition a Gullwing SLR and that I would replace the 12AT7. He told me to try it as is and that will probably work fine.

 

I stand corrected. The manual implies there are 2 versions instead of a single one with interchange tube slots.

 

I think someone else tried to recommend those. However, unless someone wants to give me a set I'm not going to know how it works with my Herron or if that gels with my system.

 

I've replaced at7's with ax7's for more gain. I may go back to the at's. Herron's a very nice phono stage

 

As much as it pains me to say it my VTPH 2A might be up for sale soon. We had a major re-org at work. I was basically moved from a mid 6 figure salary down to well under 100. Obviously I'm looking for a new gig but in the meantime I may have to sell off some toys to keep the wife out of the nut house. I've been through many stages and this one is the best I have heard. Nothing comes close. The JC3 Jr was a hack of a runner up though. I'm gonna try to keep it but as a last resort you may see it in the hardware section. The ATC's are going up this week

 

Mike, keeping priorities in order, I am very sorry to hear this news, I wish you all the best in your current or future endeavors. Everything happens for a reason, and I know everything will work out for the best. Who gives a crap about audio gear.

Take care of family first, as someone who has a wife of 25 years and two nineteen year olds still living at home in college, there is only one thing that counts.

I've enjoyed our exchanges over the last year or so, both on forum and IM. Again,nothing but positive thoughts and wishes to you and yours, I expect some good news soon where you'll be able to keep everything including the Herron.

All the best bud...

 

I asked Keith about doing that when I audition a Benz Micro Gullwing SLR with .3mv output. He said it should work just fine without changing tubes for 68db gain.

 

Wow, bummer for you. You've barely had time to let it break in and enjoy it. But I understand priorities and life throwing unexpected curves. I hope you come out the other side all the better for it.

 

I have been reading Mike's posts for a a few years now and he really has put some effort into his gear. I would keep an eye out in the forum Equipment For Sale section.

Mike, I have retired last months and I have to be moving a bunch of gear too!

 

Just a heads up on Benz cartridges, the Gullwing SLR is rated for 0.35 mV @ 3.54 cm/sec, while most manufacturers nowadays rate at 5 cm/sec, so the Benz is really about 0.5 mV output in comparison, so definitely doesn't need that much gain.

 

Good to know. Thank you for the correction. My current cartridge is 0.5 mV at 5 cm/s so that is pretty much the same.

 

Bumping an older thread here. All these rave reviews and superlatives on the VTPH-2A have me drooling a bit, plus I'm looking to go all tube with my system. Currently for phono pre I have a Pass XP15, which honestly is really articulate, dynamic and quiet. It ticks most of the boxes for sound, save a slight "clinical" nature. Bit of a longshot, but does anyone think that moving from a Pass XP15 to a Herron would be a lateral move? Also, anyone want to trade their Herron for an XP15? : )