High end Phono Stage vs good Preamp?

My point is buy a nice turntable and build around that. I think it's the wrong sequence of upgrades.

 

I just checked the OPs TT (It's pretty low budget). I think he should split his proposed expenditure between a TT and phono stage in this case. Maybe 70% on turntable and cartridge.
OP Ditch the TT, the Rotel preamp is fine for now!

 

It may not be expensive but it doesn't seem anywhere near as bad as many people here try to make it look. If sound is what matters he is not going to get the best improvement from upgrading the TT. If he can only upgrade one thing his original idea is the right one, the preamp or a phono stage and if he can't afford both I'll go for a good preamp with phono input, the Rotel preamp has to go to improve sound.

 

I agree on the turntable and cart, but I guess if you are a "vinyl only" guy (which I think is a bit silly, but so be it) I can see where investing in the phono stage (and TT/Cart) might make sense, and just get a simple passive pre/volume control like the Schiit Sys.

 

There's no point in having a good source running through a lesser preamp, so the preamp should be replaced first. That will provide a clearer signal path to the speakers so that any subsequent turntable auditions go well.

 

I don't believe investing in an expensive preamp will better his setup. TT + cart upgrade is what I would consider. Adding a (+) $500 phono stage and a cheap(er) passive preamp (something like a Schiit Saga) or even just a volume control (Sys) will do fine, ime.

 

Those are excellent speakers, and you do indeed want to feed them well. I think how you approach that depends on where you want to end up. Are you looking to spend $2500 upgrading and then be done, or would you eventually put even more into it?

IMO, $2500 for either a phono stage or a preamp is overkill if the only source is the AT-LP5. However, I am not sure some of those recommending a new turntable are realizing you would necessarily need a phono stage, as well, since you are currently using a turntable that has a built-in phono stage. If you are eventually intending to upgrade the turntable, I think it can be an OK move to address the phono stage concern now and use that with the AT-LP5 in the interim. If $2500 is the entire budget for the foreseeable future, I would be thinking more in terms of getting a TT/cart (though honestly you could use the cart you have for a while)/phono stage all-in for that much. Long-term, I think that’s more limiting, so the part of me that is cheering for your success is hoping it’s the $2500 now, then some more later on scenario.

Now for the part where I brazenly suggest gear I personally have, but in this case it addresses a specific need for what you seem to want. The Graham Slee Accession phono stage has a volume control, is a superb MM-only (well, high-output only) phono stage, and is about a grand less than what you have budgeted. So, you could hook it up straight to your power amp and skip a line stage altogether. If you are reasonably sure about keeping a vinyl-only system and do not foresee using low-output cartridges at any point before you would be open to additional upgrades, I think this might give you what you want in terms of direct signal path. What I think may be really appealing about checking out this option is that Graham Slee’s forum has a home loaner program (you pay shipping both ways and have to send the demo unit back), so you could try one to make sure it does work in the rest of your system and sounds like what you think you are missing. You may need to wait in line, but if you’re not in any hurry, I think it’s a sensible way to approach an upgrade. I would then suggest saving the $1k left from your stated budget and put it toward a turntable in the $1500-2k range when you are ready to address that piece, or start shopping for used turntables around $1k right away.

 

I will add that PS Audio phono stage looks like a fantastic product. It’s just you still need to put a volume control somewhere, as well, so you couldn’t skip the line stage preamp.

 

"Long story short, I'm looking to upgrade my Preamp. Currently running a Rotel 980 with the matched Preamp."

M~

 

Vinyl only on this system....

 

Thanks...I will look into the Graham Slee....I don't use the built in PS on the TT as I use the Rotel Preamp...The TT does allow you to bypass it. It does sound as if I need to replace the TT

 

If you had a Conrad Johnson PV-12 preamp (with the phono stage) you would be all set and wouldn't need an external phono stage. I'm guessing this would be true for the later model CJ preamps as well. You would need a Step Up Transformer (SUT) or some functional equivalent if you wanted to use a moving coil cartridge.

 

OK, I wasn’t sure if you meant you were using a built-in phono stage on the TT or the Rotel. Either way, a great external phono stage should be an improvement.

 

If he goes in that direction and at some stage wants to go the MC way, he could use a SUT and the phono stage would still be useful for many years to come.

 

Yes, and also, if he decides to go back to using a preamp to accommodate other sources, the Accession is still an excellent phono stage.

 

You can do this phono stage for less than $300 including enclosure. The build is over @ AK. If you can solder this is for you. It's presence is fast and delicate, very accurate. Gives all my stuff a run for the money no matter the cost.





The darn things on a piece of wood and no hum, buzz, quiet as a graveyard w/inky black background. Impressive to say the least. You just have to like to solder and in my case use an Opti-visor.

 

I don't see an update, but I looked at the OP info.
He went Rega upgrade

Rega RP8
Rega Apheta 2
Rega Fono MC

 

I thought I'd update you all on this...as the previous post points out, I did end up getting a good deal on the RP8/Apheta 2/Fono MC through Music Direct. I've got about 100 hours on it now and I am loving it.

Prior to this I did test the Graham Slee Accession for a few weeks. It was a bit of an improvement over the built in PS on the Rotel preamp. When I used the Accession directly between the TT and the power amp (which was suggested in a post in this thread) something was not quite right. It worked and it sounded ok...but I had to have the volume on the Accession at 50% to equal the loudness of the preamp at about 20%. Turning the accession up that high came with some added hum.

So, I passed on the Graham Slee and went ahead and upgraded the whole front end with the Rega Fono running into the Aux on my Rotel preamp. I still feel that this preamp is a weak link but I'm happy for now...

Thanks to all for the suggestions...