Home mastering from vinyl

Not so.

Recording a 16-bit signal too low will result in noise as well.

 

Hi David,

Does increasing the record level 1 or 2 dbs create no dynamic range? What is the harm w/ a cdr peaking at -1 or -2 dbs?

Just askin',
Jeffrey

 

Yes, Grant I'm making the distinction. I merely used the "compressed" signal scenario as an example. I'm well aware of the differences between peak normalizing to full scale and outright compression (my normalized, squished dynamic scenario was an example of the second, - I should have clarified).


Again, and we're never going to agree on this, even peak normalization (regardeless of what bit depth it's done) has its opponents who claim to hear a difference. What's the point of normalizing peaks to full scale simply for the *sake* of doing it? You say it "improves the resolution", I strongly disagree. It merely increases the peak output level.

If your scenario was true - then wouldn't taking your DCC discs and normalizing the peaks (which simply logarithmically raises everything equally to your desired output level) improve the resolution? I'm sorry, I don't believe so and can't agree.

Let's just agree to disagree...you're still my pal! : )

 

Well, OBVIOUSLY, if were talking some gross abuse of recording levels here. We're not. We're simply talking about whether of not peaking at 90 % or 98% make any audible improvement. I say no...you say yes.

 

There's no harm but you're not "creating" dynamic range. The dynamic range is what's on your original recording your transferring. Dynamic range defined is the difference between your loudest and softest point in your recording. Recording a couple db more doesn't change that range.

NOW, as Grant stated when pointing out the obvious. If you were to grossly peak your levels too low (which isn't what this thread is about) that wouldn't make any sense. In analog recoding it would be an outright no-no./ My point is that in the upper range of digital recording, 90 to 98% isn't going to make enough of a difference in your peak recording level to lose sleep over. Again, check a well recorded DCC disc. Does it sound hissy or low resolution with a peak level of 85 ot 90% of full scale?

 

BTW, sorry for all of the typos...I hope it still makes some sense. : )

 

NOOOOOOO, I never said it improved resolution! I know better. But, I happen to believe doing this at a higher bit depth does NOT alter the sound in any way. A higher bit-depth allows for a larger wordlength in which to do mathmatial calculations with fewer errors. I don't believe this is audiable to anyone but martians.

The main reason foe peaking at around 98% or so is to, of course, improve volume without distortion.

And yeah, we'll agree to disagree. It would be a mighty boring place if everyone was so like-minded.

 

Nope. Didn't say that. But there isn't really much to argue about since we both seem to agree on a couple of things, yet disagree on others. Your CD-R's are fine, mine are fine. As long as we're happy, I guess.

Until next time...

 

Then, I must have "mis-interpreted" this earlier quote. : )

 

Then I guess you can call all of the mastering engineers who dislike normalization (Steve included, Doug Sax) "Mr. Spock"!

: )

 

I try to get it at the peak!

I use a Phillips CDR950, nice stand alone recorder. The only thing I have noticed, is that even prerecorded cd's go about 3 db over. So I peak it just slightly over the peak when recording, no distortion, wide dynamics, etc. If you level is acurate, I would come as close as possible to increase the dynamics and over all volume. Cutting it down too much, you can loose low level infi, and cut the dynamic range.

 

HZ,

If you need a sound card substitute for your iMac, Onkyo makes an outboard USB device that has A/D-D/A converters with analog ins and outs plus both types of S/PDIF (Toslink, coax) that has been well received. It's standard 16 bit, but it apparently works well.

 

Hi David,

CSN&Y Dance a jig for all of us. Go get some rest & enjoy the show.

Jeffrey

 

Re: I try to get it at the peak!

 

When I stated that a couple of decibles are a lot I wasn't referring to resolution. I meant in volume only. It is why I like to get things as hot as possible. But it is true, if you record at too low a level in 16-bit you sacrifice resolution because of low-level distortion.

 

David, David, David, if I recall what Doug Sax said on his website, he was referring to 16-bit.

For the record, I do not normally work in 16-bit, so I do not think about 16-bit and it's pitfalls until I have to dither down to it for CD-R. Again, I work on a DAW, not a standalone recorder so I don't have to worry about losing resolution.

Ande, even if I do process in 16-bit by changing gain, I am working on my own transfers or for friends. The effects will not be obvious except to me, especially because I know what I did. The effects are slight if it is only once, not enough to worry about in most cases. If I think changing gain will be a problem I simply convert back to 32-bit. But I don't want to do this more than once because I think the effects of dithering twice is worse than any gain change of just once.

This thread is getting silly.

 

Heh! I was wondering how long it would be before someone inspected that CD-R! I was sooooo careful with it, but since i've upgraded a few things I may remaster it a third time.

I've also been experimenting with limiting and I think I can just boost the levels 3-5db with no degred...just kidding!

 

Actually, I think it's been a pretty healthy exchange...though definitely exhausting! : )

It certainly beats rubber stamping...eh? People can see two diifferent views and decide for themselves. Nothing wrong with that.

 

Yeah, I wish more people who do LP to CD-R transfers would have jumped in, though.

This is a popular thing and there is a huge community of people like us.

 

Someone wanted me to do a xfer of Classics' 45RPM issue of BOTW. I don't own any other issues except for on LP (imports) and CD (no special ones). I did it, and I got good response from it. I know what I did with it, which wasn't much.

If he who owns this CDR, come forth and speak with unabashed critisism?