How I Transformed My Home Listening Experience (Part II)

I was looking on the Polk website and I am no longer seeing them lusted for sale but the 705's are and they are still are on sale.

I did find the 707's on eBay new and as open box fot the sale price.

Adorama seems to have some left.

https://www.adorama.com/pklsim707b.html

They are now listed as discontinued at Crutchfield.

Anyone that might be considering these would be well advised to act quickly before they are gone all together.

The question that I would ask people to ask themselves is, for $2,000 or $1,500 (for the 705's) per pair, what are you going to buy that is an all around better speaker for the money?

Bob (Litejazz53) uses his for stereo, with some pretty high quality associated audio gear.

I use mine for both stereo and HT. These are speakers which excel at doing both.

When these are no longer available, I think you will be hard pressed to find a speaker that is anynear their equal in the sale price range.

Just my thoughts...

 

Also should mention, these tweeters (the mk1 version), are available on Amazon as well, which makes any potential return a breeze.

 

Whoops, a bit of a spelling error on my reply to you! I typed in vertical depression, oh heck! That is what I have, however in regard to the speakers they offer much enhanced vertical as well as horizontal dispersion, sorry for the spelling error, got it right that time!

 

I'm interested in this thread because of my age related high frequency earring loss. Boosting the high end has also transformed my listening experience.

The question has been how to boost the highs. My loss is significant. The amount of boost that I seem to need could possibly blow the tweeters. Super tweeters were recommended to unload the tweeters in the speakers. I never pursued this because I was afraid of damaging my wife or cats' ears.

So, I'm doing IEMs, instead. There are lots of IEMs out there that have tipped up highs. I have a pair. But I also have some flat headphones. At this point, I can't say whether I prefer the IEMs with the boosted treble or flat headphones with EQ.

 

mayhaps cabin fever is kicking in subconsciously?

great that the tilt actually helps improve the super tweeter experience!

 

Just a note. If your hearing loss is significant, let me point out some things that you might not be aware of.

People tend to identify not being able to hear anything above a certain frequency, say 12-kHz.

What is really happening is that hearing loss tends to occur on a curve.

Think of it like a cold front on a weather map that is coming down from Canada on an angle across the U.S.

Maybe the lower part is on the left side and the upper part is on the right or north side of the U.S.

Think of that same kind of line pushing down through the frequency range, starting at 20-kHz., when you are in your late teens.

As you age or are exposed to environmental hearing loss, you start loosing your top end hearing first.

But as this is happening, you are also loosing your hearing more gradually at frequencies below 10-kHz. also.

Maybe you can still hear to 14-kHz., but your hearing sensitivity in down -20 dB. at 8-kHz.

As your top end moves further south to around 12-kHz., your hearing sensitivity may be down to -40 dB at 8-kHz. It may also be down -20 dB at 4-kHz.

This means that in order to hear flat, you are going to need a progressive boost as the upper frequencies increase.

Men loose age related hearing loss after age 60, at twice the rate that a woman will.

When a man is down to -40 dB. at 8-kHz., a woman will likely to be only down to -20 dB in hearing sensitivity at the same frequency.

This accounts for some wives having "golden ears".

So yes, you may have your wife and cat holding their ears, as they run from the room screaming...

If you ever have the need for something more "effective" than a ribbon tweeter, I might recommend looking into a heavy duty super-tweeter like a pair of JBL 2404H Baby Cheek Horn Tweeters.

These are heavy duty commercial tweeters. I use them on top of my regular vintage Altec horns. They kick in at 6-kHz. and go on up.
From there.

jbl baby cheeks - Google Search

 

Why not try a pair of say the planar super tweeters, set them on 8KHz with no attenuation and give them a test try, you might be very pleased. The company offers a 60 day trial period. While I don't have significant hearing loss as you do, I am 67 years old, so I do not hear like a 20 year old, BUT, I certainly heard a marked improvement with both the planar super tweeters and the ribbon tweeters they offer.

I will tell you this, late at night, when I do not want to bother anyone, I slip on the Sennheiser HD-800S headphones or my Shure in-canal headphones and I do hear things I just never hear with any of my loudspeakers, they are especially good with drastic volume level changes, I don't have to turn volume levels up and down watching movies with the headphones.

Wait, I should clarify this, it's not that I do not hear every nuance with the loudspeakers, those nuances seem to "stand out" more when using headphones, it's like every sound in the movie presentation is more noticable, if that makes any sense.

 

I thought this was interesting, this man installed a pair of the planar magnetic first generation super tweeters in conjunction with his huge Acoustat speakers, then updated with the company's "trade up" plan to the full ribbon super tweeters, how about this set up!

Never thought I would see a set up like this, but here it is. The owner wrote the ribbon tweeters smoothed out the entire high end.

 

Thank you for posting this unit. This is the missing ingredient on my setup.
I was gonna ask you on how much difference or opinion on the 4 settings of attenuation adjustments vs the rheostat rotary type. Or basically not much and I'm not missing anything?
I'm running a 45 watt per channel tube 8 ohms.
Thanks...

 

I'm not exactly sure what you are asking, when I read your post, but in regard to the attenuation, a jumper is furnished and the options are 0 dB, -1dB, -2dB and -3dB attenuation. I suppose this was the preferred choice, as a standard pot or volume control would not be exactly the same when adjusting two speakers, so with the graduated attenuation using jumpers, they will always be the same volume level for perfect balance. People say tube amplifiers generally speaking have a warmer presentation than a solid state amplifier. The tweeters might really surprise you, adding some nice brilliance to the top end, good luck, I'm sure you will enjoy them.

 

Its for adjusting and balancing the volume of the tweeter with the remaining speakers. But if youre happy with it,, It means it doing its job correctly. If just confirming the ohms setting from my amp dealer if everything is good to go when I tap this. Other than that like what you said, itll definitely wake up my cabinet. I'm really psyched about this tweeter set. Like what you said on the tubes especially the ones I use which is the KT88 when its reading very high and new, its really notorious on the bass lines, piccolo and bass drums. The woofers on my Rauna tower speaker really punch. Its not complete without the hi of your super tweeters.
Thanks,
Joe

 

Yes, they arrived this morning, and here are my first impressions.

Firstly, the quality looks and feels really well built, also the design and options to adjust are well thought out and easy to do.

Then the sound is actually exactly what I expected or better what I hoped it would do. When on the right level, for me at the moment around 10 - 12 kHz and -2dB, it just lifts voices and instruments to a more present level.
This is a subtle effect. It is not at all like using tone controls, which I also tried recently with another amp. Tone controls, I found, alter the performance such that it does not feel quite right anymore and I always switched them off again. The Aperions just polish the outline of the voices and instruments, just enough to make them shine more.
I suspect that not every record will need the same level of enhancement, for example, I have a few bright ones from the early digital era, but I also have some blues and jazz from the early fifties, the early analog era, if you like, which might benefit from a larger super tweeter boost. The nice thing about it is that it completely and easily adjustable.

Litejazz, Thank you again for, firstly your comprehensive reviews and secondly for hour help to secure them in this far away country! Much appreciated, as I now have fully optimized speakers given my earlier successful tweaking of the woofers with Marigo dots, resulting in a very controlled bass and mid.

 

I am absolutely thrilled you went ahead with a pair, and I know the two tweeters look similar, but it appears you jumped into the FULL RIBBON set, which really does a beautiful job. Thanks so much for the nice compliment, I am excited when other people can find reasonably priced tweaks for their system that work, as these clearly do.

Love your turntable, that is the table I have wanted for some time! I promise, you think you have the tweeters fixed where they sound best, but as you settle in to using them, you will really play with all the options many times, that's the fun part, adjustments on "the fly."

The tweeters look fantastic on your Canton speakers, great match with the black fronts.

 

I once had the Elac 4Pi Plus.2 supertweeters, about 15 years ago. Having the high frequencies extend out to 100k hZ certainly does lift a "ceiling" off of the music. Regardless of how high we can actually hear, the feeling of spaciousness makes the entire presentation "airier" as though one went from listening in a concert hall with 40' ceilings to something like Carnegie Hall's Sterns Auditorium, which is around 80' high. However, the highest ranked concert hall in the 20th century was the Musikverein in Austria, which has only a ceiling height of 60'. So, size doesn't always matter!

Dave Wilson used the Musikverein as a reference in the design of his speakers at one time: he wanted to know how to get his speakers to sound similar to that hall.

Harry's (Pearson) original Infinity IRS speakers went out to 45k Hz. The high frequencies count. That why I love the High End Nola speakers: some of the best tweeters on the planet. Their ribbons go out to 100 K. Can't beat extended highs - but they have to be airy (not every ribbon is, you know!), and it seems ribbons do that routinely (Magnepans, for example). Ribbons make your old speakers sound like you got new speakers (which, um, you kinda DID)!! And they certainly separate out instruments far better, so one could tell the difference listening to a Stradivarius - in contrast to - a Guaneri violin. Individual instruments become much more obvious in an orchestra and seem to be sitting alongside each other rather than on top of each other. Yup, ribbons rule.

 

I had the same thoughts....
Not denying these tweeters are very good (don't know them, never heard them...) but...

 

Thanks! I have the smaller version, which they call “Planar-magnetic flat ribbon” as opposed to the bigger, newer version of “Aluminium ribbon”. I think the photo I made is not very clear. The only difference I notice is that the label is red on my Aperions instead of black on your pictures of the smaller version.

By the way both versions seemed to be on special offer in the US as of now (-20%).

I will certainly keep testing different settings and positions, should be fun!

As for the TT on the photo (Michell Gyro SE), it was a great step in my sound journey. It has two important upgrades, an external Michell PSU and the Orbe clamp and an essential tweak, which is a pylon suspension replacing the standard spring suspension. All of this was also suggested to me by knowledgeable members of this forum!

 

I think the effect of these super tweeters is twofold.

Firstly it is a different design creating high frequencies compared to the large majority of speakers, which use radial dome tweeters.

Secondly these super tweeters let you restore a flat (super) high frequency response
for your ears. It is a fact that the ability to hear high frequency deteriorates as early as of your twenties. If you measure the frequency response of a speaker with a microphone the response may be perfectly flat. However your brain receives a frequency curve that is dropping off at higher frequencies. With the super tweeters you can correct this and importantly adjust it to your liking.

 

so... I'm 61... maybe I should try to hear this things.
Costs? Anyone knows?

 

Exactly my age as well .
If you order in Germany it is 299€ + delivery. The larger ones are 599€.
Link, courtesy by Litejazz53!
https://www.hifipilot.de/navi.php?qs=aperion+super+tweeter&search=

 

But, try your treble knob first. Or if you are doing digital, try eq software. I believe you'll get similar results for less $.

 

Absolutely a sensible suggestion, but only if you compare it with the super tweeters on the spot.

 

It occurred to me that there is a third advantage of super tweeters of not altering the signal in your (excellent) system path as happens when putting the signal through tone controls, for example. It is a true “end of pipe” solution, but then in a good sense, like improving room acoustics and speaker positioning.

 

Of course!

 

I tried my treble knob first in my bedroom on the smaller Polk speakers, I promised, it is NOT the same, at least for me it was not the same. These super tweeters do to high frequencies what subwoofers do to low frequencies. Imagine someone saying, just turn your bass knob to achieve what a subwoofer will do, not going to happen. The super tweeters add a clarity to the high frequencies that no treble control will match. I am truly surprised everyone has not tried these, everything I have is enhanced when using these little gems!

 

I get your point . I built a set of speakers with super tweeters .
NADA 2-Way Klang + Ton Kit Pair using Illuminator Drivers