How I Transformed My Home Listening Experience (Part II)

Just curious, could or would you mind posting a photo of your speaker setup in your room?

 

See post #62 with Aperions.

Below, the wider set up. When not listening the Aperions are stowed in the rack. I can adjust the position of the speakers and the sliding door.

 

Ok, just like OP's speaker setup I can see where @Helom has a point regarding the effect on soundstage. As he stated that only perfect speaker positioning (soundstage wise) might allow you to discern the difference between both setups (with and without supertweeters) and notice some comb filtering.
I am just trying to understand here why some notice that effect and others not, which is why I asked for a photo of your setup.

 

Thanks again, Im breaking-in the silver wire I'm using. And my 2 young grandkids have been over allot last few days so listening times been limited.

I think the use of these tweeters, like Subwoofers, can be worked into any system or Room and add to the overall fidelity but like a Sub with time and patience. I also think that there are some speakers that won't take to it as well as others. And some speakers already make use of these type of super tweeters (Zoo for example).
I have also listened to ribbon tweeters for a long time and are very use to them.

Time alignment in all respects to the audio reproduction chain is of prime importance. Its easier with high frequency and can be very difficult with low frequency in terms of amplifier and speaker speed.

I was all over the single driver, coaxial speaker sound from 2 watt amps years ago for quite some time. There was little to choose from in speakers back then, most of us were making our own or putting random drivers in 2' x 4' sheets of plywood (open baffle).
In the end I opted for a design from Parker Audio (Dave had a great set of ears and experience building speakers for Flea-amps) which was an MTM design, crossover-less with a Ribbon tweeter caped at around 10k if I remember correctly. I had a well known speaker maker make the cabinets for Parkers raw speakers. They cost too much but are very well braced and produce tight bass and Image easily and like crazy but need to be driven with the right type of amp. They are closer to 2 ohms than 4 and well over 95db sensitive.
They are relentlessly revealing and honest. You can hear fleas fart if they were in the studio at the time and your gear good enough. Its a double edge sword and can be fatiguing or disappointing for not-so-good source material or gear. Otherwise its alluring.
I mentioned this because I also listen to Alon Speakers and I recently adopted a pair of KEF Reference speakers that are both very different than the MTM's.
Yes, as people have said time aligning multiple speakers in a large cabinet isn't easy and usually require more complex crossovers and need much more amplifier power to perform correctly.
Alon, like Vandersteen use a semi-open baffle 3-way design that improves alignment and Imaging.
But let me tell you KEF (and others) buck the design with complex design and also Image very well in their own way but setup/room becomes more critical as part of the compromise to get a Bigger, Fuller sound. Something most single driver speakers generally don't do well without Huge Cabinets! In my observations.

These Aperion Planners offer some extension to the KEFs that added to the soundstage. Imaging is more tightly focused and there is a bit more sharpness to every type of instrument or sound effect. I ran through a variety of music, old and new of different styles. Im Impressed and they have a permanent place now. Like a sub, id rather have it than not. And Not that the speakers Need either of them, they don't but with a sub and this super tweeters improvements in soundstage are always welcome. Im getting very much the best of all worlds with these old KEFs. Hard to beat without spending a lot of money! And turning the Super-tweeter off doesn't "kill" the sound, not at all. But after a few moments you can notice the loss.

Aperion is doing it right for the price, that's for sure. Others want a lot more money like the Tannoy's which are $4000/pair!
Haha, I can get lost down this road and I'm sure over the next year I Will! Id like to hear others too.


Parker Signature 95's se

 

I just plunked down for a pair of the MKIIs and looking forward to what they can offer. My #2 system (Nola Contenders/Rega Elicit) was moved to my work from home office, a smallish bedroom converted to a multiuse space. My Nolas are now a bit constrained in here, thus sound a bit darker than they did in their previous location. The volume knob returns their sound signature which I love, but I want to hear detail at lower all-day volumes. I am thinking the Aperions will really assist in returning some sparkle. We'll see. They will match the black piano gloss beautifully, so there's that!

 

When you are dealing at these very high audio frequencies, the frequency is way to high for the arrival time and phasing to make any audible effect.

You can relocate the super-tweeter elsewhere and still not hear any differences due to time shift.

Comb filtering may be present but that has to do with the two drivers interfering with each other, prior to the sound waves arriving at the listening position.

I can not comment from personal experience with the Aperion's, but I am highly skeptical that the listener would be hearing any appreciable effects that would be attributed to comb filtering.

If those who own them are not witnessing any detrimental audible effects, than I wouldn't see any need for concern.

 

A quick How To connect video:

 

I am indeed excited about Aperion's new Dual AMT Ribbon Super Tweeter. I jumped on the bandwagon with Aperion Super Tweeters way back in July 2019 with their first offering, the Planar Magnetic Super Tweeter, in my opinion the tweak of the year, it added such clarity and brilliance to the high end without any audible negative effects.

The next year their new and improved Full Ribbon Super Tweeter came out, which I reviewed in this thread, again, nothing but good things to say about the extended high end presentation I am hearing with either my Polk LSiM 707's or Aerial 10T loudspeakers, these things must be flying off the shelf since Aperion is now going to introduce their very adjustable Dual AMT Ribbon Super Tweeter. I absolutely can't wait to fire them up!

I will be creating a part III to this thread as soon as I can get my hands on this new Super Tweeter offering. In addition to all the new Dual Ribbon offering, Aperion is revamping their current models with new casing and increased controls for integration into almost every audio system. Stay tuned, hopefully I will have Aperion's new set in the next few weeks.

GENERATION 1 PLANAR MAGNETIC SUPER TWEETERS:





SECOND GENERATION FULL RIBBON DESIGN SUPER TWEETER:





BRAND NEW PLANAR MAGNETIC OR FULL RIBBON SUPER TWEETERS, JUST INTRODUCED (GREAT CABINET CHOICES)

Aperion Audio Aluminum Ribbon Super Tweeter Speaker Pair - MKII

Total Killer Cabinet Design, killer!



APERION'S NEWEST DUAL AMT RIBBON SUPER TWEETER (HOPEFULLY OUT BY END OF MARCH, 2021)

Aperion Audio Dual AMT Ribbon Super Tweeter Speaker Pair

 

I have absolutely confirmed exactly what you said by long listening evaluations with other people that are interested in the addition of Super Tweeters! Nothing but positive comments.

 

WoW?!?!

 

I can also confirm this. I tried the supertweeters at various positions within a foot or so and I could not hear a difference. All sounded brillant!

I also tried reversing polarity on the supertweeters, which resulted in a less clean sound.

 

Several of us actually gathered around and took turns in the "sweet listening spot" We were able to engage the Super Tweeters and turn them off and on. I think one of the most dramatic spots on one of the SACDs was a stand up bass, the plucking of the strings, with the Super Tweeters engaged, the sound was so alive and real, same with bells, cymbals, flutes, piano, harp, acoustic guitar, and I could go on and on, the brilliance and clarity was so easily heard from several positions in the room, not just the sweet spot. It just seems to be the perfect tweak for so many loudspeakers.

So, until I score me a set of these:




I am going to stick with these Super Tweeters!

 

The polarity of a super tweeter is not that important. Our ability to localize frequencies are greatest in the middle frequency range. A 440-Hz. reference tone (middle A), has a wavelength of about 2.5'. where a 40-Hz. tone has a wavelength of around 23'. A 10-kHz. tone's wavelength is just over an inch.

When a sound gets either too high or too low in frequency, the phase plays a much less importance overall. It is more important that both are wired the same.

This is the reason that you can position the tweeter almost anywhere. The same holds true for a sub-woofer. Drivers in the mid-frequency range should be wired in phase with each other.

 

I have been waiting a long time for the newest offering from Aperion to be shipped and they are finally here, hope to be able to share some listening experiences over the weekend, wow, are these things nice, and "heavy"

 

i know youtube reviewers aren't particularly popular around these parts, and this particular reviewer has a reputation for hyperbole, but man does he love the aperion super-tweeters. almost an hour of raving about how great they are!

 

His video makes me dizzy as well as his fuc---- this and fuc---- that, but he is correct on the newer Aperion design. They are expensive, but I have found their dual direction design is brand new for Aperion, and it really makes a huge, HUGE difference in the overall presentation. Their new Air Motion dual firing super tweeters are monsters! If you ever want to experience the high end that you have been missing, these speakers will give you exactly what you are wanting to hear. They truly are a huge jump above any super tweeter I have ever heard as well as the other Aperion super tweeters, yep, they are that good, you should try a pair.

 

I'm not sure, but I think the above review, while positive in nature, is not worth much! These AMT super tweeters are truly remarkable. I have never used super tweeters which add such brilliance and clarity, it's that simple. From their least expensive product, pictured in this video, to their new AMT dual firing super tweeter, they are all remarkable and just a wonderful addition to most any audio system!

 

I have tried to hear this high frequency cancelling and I just cannot say I hear it at all. Their newest dual firing super tweeter is absolutely top shelf, I love it.

I thought this response by the factory might be helpful. They are speaking about comb filtering:

In general, the comb filter effect is first prevented during the recording process. For example, when you use multiple microphones to record there is cross-bleed between the mics which ultimately causes the comb filter effect which as you know is phase eliminating sound waves.

In terms of a speaker, comb filtering can be caused by the various drivers (tweeter/mid/woofer) and they have some frequency overlaps. This is why speakers use the crossover to equally distribute the frequency range across the drivers and make the curve flat. Ultimately you should not hear any comb filtering if the speaker has a good crossover network, and if anything can only be found by using testing equipment.

In addition, there are hardly any 2-way or 3-way speakers that have a single tweeter which also includes crossover network function. So of course now that we're introducing the super tweeter to the market, people will raise concerns. I'm sure this concern must have been the same when people first were introducing sub woofers to the market too, hence the phase and crossover knobs.

A few other things to note are:

1. This is why our super tweeters include the adjustable crossover network.
2. With the 5 frequency points, our super tweeters should work well with almost every speaker.
3. We also suggest using it on top of the speaker that it integrates with to help with the phase and time alignment.
4. The room itself causing reflection and delayed sound waves
5. Some speakers the built in tweeter is inversed polarity, which we of course wouldn't know. If so, then customers can try connecting via reverse polarity (+ to - / - to +).

In the event someone believes they are hearing comb filtering, our customers are allowed a full 60 days if for any reason they are not satisfied with the product, you have no risks.

I am hoping some of this info helps.

Thanks!

Aperion Audio
503-598-8815 | 888-880-8992
AperionAudio.com
25599 SW 95th Ave, Suite D, Wilsonville, OR 97070

 

Their response is absolutely laughable and false. Comb-filtering can certainly occur in the recording process, but that has nothing to do with the output at the speaker end. Comparing super-tweeter integration to sub integration is another lame attempt to mislead us. That’s an apples-to-oranges comparison because high frequencies are very short wavelengths and bass freqs are long wavelengths.

First or second-order filters, as Aperion uses, are completely inadequate for use in super-tweeter networks. Ask Danny Ritchie about Aperion’s tweeters.

Aperion either has a very poor understanding of speaker design or they’re completely disingenuous with this response. Sad.

 

Except that high frequencies are much more directional then low frequencies.

 

I'd like to see Helom's view of Tekton speakers

 

I’d like it if some would learn more about speaker design rather than making ignorant remarks here. You obviously don’t understand how Tekton’s “tweeter-array” works.

 

Apologies if this has been asked and answered. I have normal age-related hearing loss (down whatever number of dbs at 8Khz). Still able to enjoy music as long as the treble on my integrated is turned up to about 1 o'clock. Would I even be able to hear what the Aperion is doing?

 

geez, keep it friendly eh? i'm not saying tekton speakers don't work. Saw your accurate takedown of their email and was just cracking a joke given concerns over comb-filtering which clearly tekton themselves have always had to explain and address themselves before.

 

Well yes. With regard to positioning, I was referring to the ability to place it at an optimum position in the listening room, where it will provide you with the best high frequencies. It doesn't require time alignment the way the midrange and woofer do for maximum benefit.