I want to love vinyl, but...

Portland has issues...

 

Yes I've built quite a collection over the last couple years of used cds.

 

No accomplishment needed, simply a conversation with knowledgeable people to perhaps get a better understanding of what I'm missing, or perhaps doing wrong. When lots of monkeys enjoy the bananas, but I'm not one of them, I feel like exploring the reasons why, from a different point of view. My opinion on bananas certainly isn't the only opinion, so I like to open my mind to other possibilities instead of just choosing to eat apples!

 

I was in your shoes two years ago. 4,000 CD's and 1,000 digital downloads ago. Now, my buying habits are 6 digital downloads for every 1 CD and 10 CD's for every 1 vinyl. Much smaller environmental and space footprint. I'm all for all the and intangible formats of recorded music. Keep your records and vinyl set-up, though.

 

Got a CD player in 1990, kicking & screaming after years of collecting vinyl. Within a year I'd dumped 99% of my LPs, (a collection of over 5,000), & never looked back. Less than zero interest in going back to an outdated format that wears out so rapidly in comparison. I passed 10,000 CDs several years ago.

To each their own, but I admittedly laugh at the hipsters, (young or aging), that are either getting into vinyl or getting back into it & paying a premium price for it, thinking it's somehow "superior". Yeah, when they wear out then you'll be kicking yourself for going back to an obsolete format & getting rid of the one that actually is superior, at least for those of us for whom the music is more important than the hipness of the medium it's on.

 

Yes I will keep my records and explore upgrading my turntable and phono stage. I enjoy researching gear and building a system. I quite like Rega gear, so may start looking for deals on it. Quite like some of the older turntables too. A Systemdek iiv is available for $425 cad, and I think it's gorgeous! Not sure it's an upgrade tho, more of a sideways move maybe.

 

I started buying music in the age of cassettes and CDs which I still play and enjoy but I kinda missed out on the vinyl heyday. About 18 months ago I got into records thanks to my daughter inquiring what records were. Down the rabbit hole I went. Most of my records are from my local stores bargain bin which if you buy 5 you get them for 3 dollars. I love bringing them home, cleaning them up and enjoying the music how it sounded then. I don't think records sound better necessarily but they do have a "sound" that is more present. To me a turntable is a musical instrument that requires patience, tinkering and tuning to get it to sound right and when it does....wow. It's great to live in an age where you have so many options to enjoy your music.

 

We have a pretty nice hi fi at home, and after years of listening to digital only (top of the line Naim player and nas-based server), we bought a used Rega RP-8 and a few dozen 'vintage' lp's. There really IS something to this 'vinyl thing.' Vinyl CAN sound absolutely fabulous. And we've enjoyed the 'sit on the couch and hold the sleeve / read the liner notes / look at the pictures' thing, especially for its nostalgia value.

The OP should not feel bad if he doesn't enjoy it, or "get it." I think that to approach the quality of good digital replay, one needs a decent tt, a decent phono stage perhaps, decent quality lp's and probably a decent record cleaning machine.

 

I haven't read thru the thread but in my current system my TT/cart are very much exactly the same quality as my CD and other digital sources. Of course a bit of surface noise etc. but it's good to have options and I have records from my youth I can still enjoy. OK, yeah, I re-bought many of them on digital media too ...

 

One thing you shouldn't be teaching is economics.

Regarding the topic at hand, I wanted to hear for myself what the vinyl fuss was about, so I ordered a $99 turntable and a bunch of records, to be employed with the same headphones and headphone amplifier that I use for my CDs. I was absolutely floored. LPs do sound spectacular. They won't replace my CDs because they both offer advantages the other can't replicate, however they will be a very nice addition to my hobby.

Buy LPs. Buy CDs. Both are treasures. Today especially the latter. Don't wait until people realize how much better CDs sound compared with streaming and they become unaffordable as well.

 

My review of the TT3 turntable illustrates my experiences with vinyl. I was not into it until I heard a top flight turntable - there is no digital that can match it IMO. BUT - as others have pointed out - things have to be pretty close to ideal for that supreme sound quality to come about. The Voyd Reference was that top flight turntable and back in the 1990s it was in the $10k price range. But it mopped the floor with everything else in the store including the $30,000 Linn Sondek CD player and the top of the line digital from Meridian and Naim and Audio Note et al.

We go back to the high price and the fact that the dealer is playing "clean" "well-recorded" records. But many records just plain suck. I have been ordering 10 LPs at a time and about 1/10 suffer some sort of annoying issue to being downright unplayable. I bought a Santana album that was so warped it throws my tone arm into the air! A recently purchased Aurora LP has one side that is fine but side 2 is a wreck. So I bought a second copy (I like her) and side one is a wreck but side 2 is fine. So the two lps gives me 1 good album. One new classical album seems to have an issue where every rotation has a "thump" sound. I expect to see a scratch all the way down the side but there is no scratch - and it occurs on both sides. Huh? What could cause that? an indent or lump or something? No clue - I can't see it.

You just don't have any of these issues on CD or download.

Now many of these LP's come with the digital download so you get the back-up I suppose but still. a 10% crappy LP rate so far is pretty high. Second hand LP is even worse - maybe around 50/50 getting a great quality LP - and that is when I just shop in the VG+ and M- or better. They LOOK great but that doesn't mean they play great. It's the damage done that you can't see that is irritating. And second hand LPs in Hong Kong are running $12-$15US and up. For that I'd rather buy a new one for $25-$30.

My only real suggestion is to audition something like the Voyd Reference or my Audio Note TT3 (which is heavily inspired by the Voyd) so that you will at least understand why people are adamant that vinyl is king. And then you'll also get an idea of the massive differences between these decks and entry level Rega/ProJect.

I have no nostalgia factor for LP - I am 46 and grew up on CD. I go for vinyl for the sound quality - I find them to be a total pain in the ass. My computer is filled with thousands of albums in FLAC and I have two DA Converters (my Line Magnetic actually has two settings with two transformers - one operates in tube mode - the other in solid state) and my other DAC is a NOS DAC. I also have the VCambridge audio CXC Transport into those DACs.

Even with the very good Audio Note TT2 I was probably 70%-30% CD/Digital to Vinyl. Since I bought the TT3 May 20 - it is has been 98% -2% vinyl/Digital (zero CD). It is a staggering improvement and the biggest improvement to any stereo I have owned. But it costs a LOT and there are all those utterly awful LPs. And in HK there is no return on LPs. You can open it up and inspect them before you buy but that doesn't help the ones that look good but sound awful.

Lastly - I will say that there are folks who can recommend certain labels and printing houses where the recordings and pressings are premium quality - perhaps an Analog Productions where generally they are noise free and well engineered. Problem is that you are choosing music for the sound quality and not the artist.

Still - audition the higher end tables. They exist for the reason that they sound better. Going from a $200 CD player to a $1,000 CD player yields a little improvement but nothing nearly as massive as going from a $200 cartridge to a $1000 turntable or cartridge.

 

If you don't enjoy vinyl, then there is literally no point in buying it. DACs and CD players have improved so much over the years, that if I didn't have thousands of records already, I probably wouldn't bother owning a TT today.

 

Sir, this is a Wendy’s...

 

I keep some "special" albums on vinyl. Otherwise it's ripped CDs. Occasionally its actual CDs on the LM215CD...

 

I do have half a business degree - worked in accounting for 8 years too

 

The Japanese believe in Shinto Animism wherein an object has a spirit, collecting records and CD's are huge over there. For a culture that is adamant about avoiding waste, it speaks volumes about how they revere the physical medium.

There is something about having your favorite album in its physical form, knowing that you own it and that you can pass it on to a loved one. To me, it's worth the frustration, expense, and impracticality to keep going.

 

It depends on what kind of records you're buying. Someone mentioned only getting 2-3 LPs for $80-100. I suspect they're buying those overpriced reissues of classic rock records I bought in high school and don't need to buy again.

Probably 90% of my LP purchases are new albums by current artists, usually on indie labels. I rarely pay more than $20.

 

Some if it is about getting a remastered edition or 45 pressing. These can be mixed results so you sort of have to wait to read reviews of them to see if they are worth the bother.

Also a lot of albums are coming out in limited number production runs of 1000 copies. Get them while you can or they're gone. I had 1 such album in my cart and dummy me I waited 1 whole day and they were sold out. It was maybe $30. Now it it's $100 on the second hand market. The album is for the virtually unknown Amanda Marshal. So if someone like that sees the LP more the triple in a few weeks - imagine if it is a more well known artist. https://www.amazon.com/Amanda-Marshall-Vinyl-AMANDA-MARSHALL/dp/B0711DSWNV

So there is a bit of collector value to these things that may be driving some of the prices. I purchased one of the Jennifer Warnes Blue Raincoat album where she sings Leonard Cohen songs and has a duet with him. I must confess that part of the reason I bought it was because it is a limited edition LP only 1000 copies and the price was around $35 - not too crazy and mastered by Bernie Grundman and pressed at RTI. This album is virtually flawless sounding and hey - I wound up liking Warnes a lot more. And once they're gone they're gone. You never know - in 20 years it might be worth hundreds if not thousands.

There are CDs in Hong Kong that sell for $1,000 because they are first pressing CDs of artists. And apparently there are indicators on the labels to reveal whether it came from the initial release or later. I had no clue about this because I buy music to listen not to collect but I would not be too quick to dump CDs in the garbage just yet either. Maybe your first CD of Miles Davis will sell for thousands??

I mean my old Wayne Gretzky rookie card sold for a million bucks apparently. I had three of them in my bike spokes as a kid. Most expensive bike in history. What can you do. Hoard everything people - you never know what some nut will pay for it.

 

They love physical books and magazines too. Spending time in a multi-level book store there is a wonderful experience. The amount of magazines available for niche interests is insane. Like vintage clothing? There's magazines dedicated to that. Love cats? There's magazines dedicated to them. HiFi? Yep, several magazines dedicated to it including 'Analog' which is dedicated entirely to analog formats. I love Japan.

 

Interesting thread and it really shows how people experince things differently.

For me personally, it's records. I actually sold my turntable recently because the hobby is getting so expensive and CD's are cheap these days. I bought a CD player and everything. I just couldn't get into them. Nothing about them is interesting to me. I decided that I'll buy records for my physical media fix and stream FLAC files via Roon if I want a more convenient option.

 

I agree completely. Yes I know I'm up and above the $5000 mark with my vinyl rig as it's right now but it's because I want the best possible sound from my vinyl records. But to listen to a Rega P2 or one of the Pro-Ject TT's in the same price bracket combined with a good sounding MM cart as well a good quality budget phono stage can be thrilling. I really enjoy to go to friends and listen to their great sounding budget vinyl rigs. It's very refreshing to hear that one can get a very nice vinyl sound even with well combined budget gear.

 

I listen mainly to classical and music on Tidal and Qobuz does sound like crap. Once people realize this and get over the notion that all digital music sounds the same, the market for CDs will explode just like vinyl did.

 

One easy upgrade is to the 2M Black Shibata cut stylus. It really sounds different than the Bronze stylus.

This will give you two different stylus that you can quickly exchange out for a different sound signature.

And I do mean that they sound completely different. Suggest you buy from an eBay seller in Germany for the best price.

The black will work best when used on a quiet record with little surface noise. It will be more dynamic and organic sounding and the bass will astound you.

 

Can you elaborate on this? What's the process? I'm looking for a new cleaning method.

 

Music is a passion of mine. Vinyl is a hobby that is very complimentary to the passion.