If English was ABBA's 2nd language, how did they write such great lyrics?

What a sad thread this turned out to be with so many showing their musical prejudices.


Abba did a load of songs which were neither 'disco' nor 'bubblegum' yet this is still how they are tagged.

A lot of their lyrics were silly, a lot were good, some were great, no different from a lot of bands who have English as their first language. So to overcome that barrier and becoming such a huge group in various English speaking territories is a fabulous achievement and to have these songs still loved 25 years after they split up is a gigantic feat too.

People who put them down obviously just don't 'get them' but that doesn't mean they have to show their musical snobbery.

I thought this place was better than that.

 

I agree totally on a board that has seen long serious discussions about the Bay City Rollers and Kiss. Either they don't own their whole catalog (which shows how Benny and Bjorn's skills grew with each album),only know their big hits or too just proud to admit they loved them too.

ABBA was the best pop group that didnt come from the UK or USA from the mid 70's to the early 80's. And they did write some great lyrics, like "Our Last Summer".

 

A couple of points about Abba's lyrics and their development. The band had two main lyrics writers: their manager Stig Anderson and Bjorn Ulvaeus. Benny only made occasional lyrical contributions in the early days but he wrote most of the music.

The early phase of Abba's career between 1973 and 1976 is the period where pretty much all of the inane and silly lyrics date from. At this stage, Bjorn was pretty unfamilar with writing English lyrics and took the general approach that they just had to rhyme and fit into the music - they were a secondary consideration. On the tracks that Stig wrote lyrics for, he concentrated exclusively on hooks and rhyme, without any focus on meaning. Examples of this period: Tiger, Honey, Honey, The King Kong Song, That's Me

The 'second phase' spanned 1977 to 1978 - Bjorn's marraige with Agnetha was failing and he began to try and express what he felt through his lyrics. He had become more comfortable with the English language and the band's lyrics gradually became sadder and more profound. Stig was no longer writing lyrics - he was merely suggesting song titles. Examples of this period: Eagle, One Man, One Woman, The Name of the Game.

The final phase spanned from 1979 to the group's break-up. Bjorn emerged as a sophisticated and clever lyricist, penning the group's most celebrated lyrics, all of which were crammed with meaning and drew extensively on his personal experience. They also wandered into the political at some points - The Visitors was about Soviet dissidents. By 1981, in many cases, the words actually became the most important element of the songs. Examples of this period: The Winner Takes It all, The Visitors, Our Last Summer, The Day Before You Came.

 

At least in Sweden, we have compulsory English from our fourth year at school, which means that the least amount of English you'll get as a student is nine years. (School is twelve years long in Sweden.)

English is considered one of the three core subjects in Swedish school. The other two are Swedish and Maths.

And from our seventh year in school we have to study yet another language, either Spanish, German or French.

I'm not sure if those were the rules back when the members of ABBA went to school, but that's how it works today.

 

We just disagree with you as to weather their lyrics are ''good'' maybe you could explain what it is we don't get.If everyone agreed on everything this would be a pretty boring place,and i wouldn't be here.

We're the ABBA of internet music forums.

 

I'm not prepared to argue about the quality of their lyrics, but they're one of most successful non-native english speaking pop bands, if not the most successful.

I have to wonder how many other rock or pop bands have been good if not great but could not see greater success, purely because of the english language barrier.

 

I think you mean whether.

 

"When All Is Said and Done" has some good lyrics.

 

The lyrics were far from great..

 

The "quality" of lyrics is soooo subjective anyway....
How come the girls sang so well in English but had trouble making conversation? That point has always puzzled me.

 

You can't make sweeping generalisations about ABBA's lyrics. Some were pure pop and, let's face it, pure pop songs aren't noted for their great mystical lyricisim. Lets look at some contemporary verse from their early period, say 1973 - 75.

My Coo Ca Choo (Alvin Stardust) (Oooh Oooh, look at you, I really love the things that you do)

Can The Can (Suzi Quatro) (So make a stand for your man honey, try to can the can)

Compared to this sort of stuff, a song like SOS sounds almost Shakespearean.

The middle period: 1976 - 78:

Knowing Me, Knowing You (ahh haaaaaa) No more, carefree, laughter, silence ever after, these old familiar rooms, children would play. Now there's only emptiness, nothing to say.

The Name of The Game: I was an impossible case, no-one could ever reach me, now I think I can see in your face, there's a lot you can teach me.

Dum Dum Diddle: I can hear how you work practicing hard working night and day. And it sounds better now yes you improve every time you play. But its bad, you're sop sad. And you're only smilin' wnen you play your violin (such use of simile! And then they launch into the killer punch with) Dum Dum Diddle to be your fiddle to be so near and not just here.

Ok, ok, so that might have been a bad example

The later period 1979 -

Does Your Mother Know: You're so hot, teasing me. So you're blue but I can't take a chance on a chick like you. Its something I couldn't do. There's that look in your eye, I can read in your face that your feelings are driving you wild. Oh but girl you're only a child.

Nothing there that Neil Diamond would have been ashamed of.

One of Us: I saw myself as a concealed attraction. I felt you kept me away from the heat and the action. Just like a child, stubborn and misconceiving, that's how I started to show one of us had to go. Now I've changed and I want you to know...one of us is crying, one of us is lying in a lonely bed. Staring at the ceiling, wishing she was somewhere else instead.

If that was Joni Mitchell singing those words, would they be considered trivial?

Its all about perceptions people. There are some native speakers of English who would do well to look at some of the later lyrics. The phrasiing might be a little clunky at times (no more ace to play), but the sentence structure and sentiment is often awesome.

 

Joseph Conrad, Vladimir Nabokov, and Billy Wilder impress the hell out of me. Abba — well, I can't think of anything I'd call a great lyric, but they certainly came up with some good ones, and better than a lot of English-speaking songwriters ever manage. They can justly be proud of that.

"The judges will decide, the likes of me [will] abide." No glitch there.

 

I love Abba in English and in Swedish. Superbly crafted pop music. It's worn it's years lightly for me.

 

Speaking for myself, I might mock some of the early lyrics, but I love ABBA. So, just some good-natured humor. I wouldn't be surprised if Björn sits around today and laughs at some of them too.

 

It has nothing to do with "getting them" or "musical snobbery". There are plenty of FANS in this thread who don't think their lyrics are particularly good.

The thread posits the notion that ABBA had great lyrics. Plenty of folks disagree, and for pretty good reason, as there's not much evidence of greatness in their lyrics. Few - if any - have said ABBA sucks or bashed them in a broad way - they just disagree with the thread's premise.

Crud, I love Madonna, but I don't claim she has great lyrics. You can like an act and not think they're perfection on toast...

 

I just saw Mamma Mia, the movie... okay, it's definitely has its down points, but back to the subject here, I feel that the lyrics of The Winner Takes It All and Slipping Through My Fingers were fantastic and helped a lot with the emotional aspects of the scene...

Sure, Abba's lyrics could never be as profound when compared to well established writers like Dylan or Springsteen, but I think Benny and Bjorn did pretty good there! I enjoyed these lyrics a lot and was able to connect with them on an emotional level

 

Well, have you listened to every Abba song? You cannot say they have bad lyrics if you have not listened to every Abba song.
Does every Beatles song have great lyrics?

"Love, love me do. You know I'll be true"
"I'm gonna love her till the cows come home"
"My love, she ain't no peasant"
"When you sigh, my insides just fly Butterfly"
"Don't come around, leave me alone Don't Bother Me"

You can say Abba has bad lyrics if you have listened to the later albums and then form an opinion. But you can't just pick a few songs from Ring Ring or Waterloo and say that.

 

C'mon--you're splitting hairs now. The thread title refers to Abba having "great lyrics." Not an "occasional song with great lyrics." You've totally missed the big picture here. I agree with Oatsdad--no one's bashing Abba--just challenging the idea that this band is particularly gifted at writing lyrics. They're not, but many people love them (which is as it should be).

 

And I'm seeing people say they didn't have any good lyrics. I'm saying listen to their entire catalog first. Anyone can have an opinion, but be familiar with all of the albums.
Plenty of the Abba lyrics are bad, but plenty are good. I know this since I have more than Abba Gold.

 

You see, some of the key terms are slipping a bit: the original poster's "great" has become "good" in your latest post (and there is an obvious difference). And, based on what people have put forth as examples of Abba's best lyrics, I see stuff that works fine in the context of an amazingly melodic song, but I have yet to be floored by a great lyric.

Good, sure, but not great--so where's the great stuff (to re-ask a question that's come up more than once on this thread)?

 

Well them substitue great if that makes you happy. I don't see anything wrong with the lyrics of Adante, Adante, Chiquitita, Disillusion, Eagle, Fernando, Elaine, Hey Hey Helen, I'm a Marionette, The Visitors, etc.
People act like they had the worst lyrics in the world, when that is far from the case.

 

And when exactly did I say ABBA had BAD lyrics? Not sure why you're lashing out at me when I never made such a claim...

 

You know, I thought this thread was one of those joke threads when I clicked on it. Guess I'm wrong!

And for the record, every band/artists has written some clunkers, but great lyrics is not something I would ever associate with ABBA.

 

This has been one of the biggest misconceptions about ABBA. Benny & Bjorn always spoke very good English. Agnetha and Frida had noticeable trouble with speaking English but understood it when spoken to them.

ABBA could also sing in Spanish!! Their songs were translated by Buddy & Mary McClusky - an executive with RCA Latin America. And yes, they did it phonetically, but they sang in Spanish better than most Anglos could ever aspire to.

Their lyrics were sometimes corny and perhaps not always the most "utt", but when Bjorn took over the lyric writing from Stig Andresson (their manager), they improved. I think Stig Andersson was the lyrical weak link.

 

Sorry, I didn't mean to quote you. You have made good points. I meant to quote another poster.
For personal reasons, Abba means a lot to me so I get defensive. It's silly, but I "discovered" them during the lowest point of my life (divorce and the aftermath.)