If you had to pick one CD pressing of each Kinks release...

I am new to this one.

Is the mastering for the deluxe editions NOT being offered in a single disc format?

To get the best mastering you have to buy the multiple discs? Is that correct?

It seems strange if true.

 

So far, no; only in the deluxe editions themselves, or for the mono mixes, as part of the box set The Kinks in Mono.

 

Did the Kinks start mastering in good stereo like the Beatles did at some point?

I am very ignorant of their catalog (I currently have the Ultimate Collection).

In other words, if I prefer stereo, are there good stereo mixes (not panned hard right and left) for some of the PYE albums?

Thanks

 

Speaking about the albums from Face To Face to Lola, only, the stereo mixes are decent and are not "hard-panned", if that is your worry. There is nothing mixed like Rubber Soul, for example.

 

I haven't heard the PRT but I did have the Castle for awhile. I got rid of it because of the two things you mentioned above that were missing.
The Reprise (which I haven't heard) is not the same as the Sanctuary, is it? The Reprise doesn't have the bonus and is an earlier mastering than the Sanctuary.

In any case, I am happy with the Sanctuary. I don't know if there is noise reduction. Very difficult for me to tell in general. I don know that I probably prefer my Reprise vinyl, but as I said, I am happy with the Sanctuary CD.

 

Kinks is hard-panned. Kinda Kinks and Kontroversy are mono only. The "stereo" version of Face to Face is mostly mono or near-mono. Something Else and Kelvin Hall are closer to genuine stereo, but the mixing's pretty sloppy (mind you, the same could be said for the mono mixes). Village Green and Arthur sound fine in stereo; the stereo version of Arthur is a clear improvement over the mono version. Lola and Percy are stereo only, and the mixes sound fine.

 

Matt B.

1. Do you still feel the same about these recommendations two years later and with further releases of the Deluxe editions? Which of these would you get the Deluxe instead?
3. Can you recommend a CD for Muswell Hillbillies?

Looking of course for the best sounding version of each. Appreciate your work and expertise on the Kinks catalog.

 

I too wish this had stretched to include "Muswell Hillbillies" which frequently moves into my "favorite Kinks record" spot.

 

I prefer the original Rhino "MH" to the SACD. I do like the two bonus tracks on the SACD.

 

Bump.

I would also like LazerVampire to chime in. I think he listed that he as every pressing of the PYE Kinks albums.

I loved the list I quoted 3 posts above that Matt B. made, but he made it in 2010. I am curious what the Kinks experts here would recommend from the debut, up through Muswell Hillbillies now that the Deluxe Editions have been released. Are they now the must haves for sound quality?


Thanks!!

 

also going to bump this old thread to see if Matt can provide an update on the deluxe editions, specifically, as in the case of Something Else where he recommended it (tentatively) long before it was released

 

Yes, it would be interesting to see how Matthew B. ranks the deluxe editions in the grand scheme of things.

I've been sifting through some of the old threads about the deluxe reissues. From what I could gather, there isn't really a consensus about the SQ of these releases. Overall, I'd say the reviews are mainly positive. I was left with the impression that Sandoval did a good job considering the limitations of the original recordings and the state of the industry. On the plus side, people lauded the greater emphasis on bottom end. On the negative side, many folks complained that (wait for it) these editions are too loud and lack the dynamics of the PRT's and CLACD's.

I've always been reasonably satisfied with my CLACD versions of all the albums from Face to Face through Lola vs Powerman. When I bought them in the early 90s, they were inexpensive and a substantial upgrade over the Golden Hour LPs that introduced me to the Kinks. If you've heard any of the Golden Hour records, you know that it would be difficult to not improve on them.

My copy of Kink Kontroversy is the 1998 Castle reissue, which sounds just as poor as the reviews here would indicate. I also have the MFSL of You Really Got Me/Kinda Kinks.

So, I'd like to replace Kontroversy with either the CLACD or the Deluxe Edition. I'm also thinking about getting the Deluxes for Face to Face and Something Else, since I've always thought were the weakest (for SQ) among the CLACDs. I'm curious about the mono versions and bonus tracks, but I'm primarily interested in the potential sonic upgrade of the main album tracks. In other words, the Deluxe Editions are not a no-brainer for me.

Although there is no shortage of posts about the Kinks and sound quality, it would be nice to pool a lot of this information in a single location. Perhaps it's wishful thinking, but wouldn't it be great if there was a FAQ similar to the one that Lukpac put together for the Rolling Stones?:

http://www.lukpac.org/stereostones/stones-cd-faq.txt

 

I would say the Deluxe editions are a no-brainer. I've heard both the Deluxe and the PRT of the Kontoroversy and they're both good although I prefer the Deluxe ( the old 1998 gets my vote as the worst mastering I've ever heard on any recording). The bonus tracks are definitely worthwhile as you not only get the contemporary singles but finished songs that were unreleased for one reason or another but certainly not , in most if not all cases, because they weren't good enough.
Both Face to Face and Something Else are definitive in mono. A couple of examples: "Little Miss Queen of Darkness" from the former and "Love Me Till The Sun Shines" from the latter are meant to be heard in their mono incarnations.
And "Waterloo Sunset" rules in mono.

 

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you're partial to Kink Kontroversy ... or maybe you just like the cover. I came to know this album by way of a cassette I bought in the 80s. Long before I joined this forum, I picked up the 1998 reissue thinking that it could only sound better. Even then, it struck me as particularly bad. Needless to say, I've rarely played it.

Anyway, I've taken your advice and shelled out for Deluxe Editions of all three titles. I guess I can't really call myself a big fan of the Kinks if I've never heard the mono mixes of Face to Face or Something Else. Thanks for your input.

 

You're welcome. Enjoy your new purchases.
And I like both the album and the cover although the first copy I had of this record was the U.S. one with a different cover. Kink Kontroversy was a huge leap forward as an album. Their singles were great up to that point but the first 2 albums were... meh. I like the way the third album straddles their hard-rocking early sound and Ray's new-found lyrical sophistication (and Dave's first song). The Kinks' best-ever cover song too.

 

A very, very belated reply — sorry, Luke —

If somebody's just looking for both the mono and the stereo mixes with a great selection of bonus tracks, then there's no reason not to get the Deluxe Editions. But since you said your criterion is "best sounding," most of my recommendations are still the same. The Deluxes aren't bad-sounding by any means, but they are quite compressed and sometimes a bit hotter than I'd like. I do prefer the new mono masterings for Kinks, Something Else, and (for the Kinks in Mono box) Village Green.

So here's my revised list:


Kinks: Deluxe Edition. Easily better than the 1998 mastering for the mono mix, which I prefer to the stereo.

Kinda Kinks: Mobile Fidelity. The PRT, Castle CLACD, and Deluxe Edition are all fine alternatives.

The Kink Kontroversy: The PRT or the almost identical Castle CLACD.

Face to Face: Victor Japan "K2"; if that's hard to find, the Deluxe Edition is the best substitute.

Live at Kelvin Hall: Castle Essential, because it includes the mono mix.

Something Else: Deluxe Edition, for the mono and the original stereo versions without excessive noise reduction or tape glitches.

Village Green: The Village Green disc from The Kinks in Mono. If buying a huge box set for the sake of one disc seems excessive, then go with the Deluxe Edition or (for the stereo mix alone) the PRT/Castle CLACD.

Arthur: PRT. The Castle CLACD is about the same except for swapped stereo channels.

Lola: Castle Essential.

Percy: Castle Essential.

I like the 2004 hybrid CD/SACD from Koch/Velvel. The Rhino is a bit more dynamic, but its bright EQ gives it annoying levels of hiss. With luck I'll have a new favourite Hillbillies mastering in a very short time.

 

Thanks!

 

Nice list - one correction though. I have the Castle Village Green and it does not have swapped channels. The channels are consistent with my Deluxe Edition and my Spanish PRT vinyl.

 

Yeah, the Castle CLACD Village Green is their one early Kinks disc that doesn't swap the left and right channels. In fact, it's digitally identical to the PRT mastering (except for a small volume change, and tape hiss between tracks). In other cases I suspect that the PRTs and Castle CLACDs are different flat transfers from the same tapes.

 

The DEs and SACDs

 

Another KINKS post from the past. Thank you Matthew B.!

I'll post my findings on sound quality at some point. Still trying to track down the original PRT for Lola. I've been super impressed by the sound quality of these '85/'86 releases. For those recommending the DEs of the PRT years, is it for the bonus tracks or do you honestly find the sound quality better than the PRTs?

As for the debut, I'd rather have mono, but I'd want it to sound like CDKINK 7251. Sort of expect that the DE will be loud, bright and harsh as heard on a refined, high resolution component system (not headphones).

 

Here is a breakdown Matthew B. did of Muswell Hillbillies in 2011. We will hopefully see how he compares the deluxe to these soon.

http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/kinks-muswell-hillbillies-cd-pressings.237976/

Matthew B.:

"There are six different CD masterings of Muswell Hillbillies:

Rhino, 1990, R2 70934
Konk/Velvel, 1998, 63467-79719-2 (HDCD encoded)
Universal Japan "K2", 2000, VICP-61002
Koch/Velvel, 2004, VEL-SC-79801 (redbook/SACD hybrid)
Universal Japan "K2 High Definition", 2006, VICP-63256
Universal Japan "K2HD", 2007, VICP-63841

Both of the Velvel masterings and the 2007 K2 HD include two bonus tracks, "Mountain Woman" and "Kentucky Moon." The other three masterings don't.

I don't know which Velvel mastering is being used for the current Koch reissue. The Japanese VICP-64250 and VICP-70004 releases, both from 2008, should both use the 2007 mastering, assuming the same pattern holds for Muswell as for other discs in those series.

The Rhino is good except for prominent high end with huge amounts of hiss on some tracks (e.g., "Oklahoma U.S.A."); some of the other tracks sound fine.

The 1998 Velvel has too much noise reduction, very audible on the title track. The 2004 Koch/Velvel, though prepared from the same digital transfer, does not have the same NR artifacts. The EQ on the 2004 is slightly boosted at 9~10 kHz relative to the 1998, but with substantially less treble in frequencies higher than that. Both of the Velvels are slightly compressed. (These comparisons are based on redbook playback.)

The various K2s are piercingly bright, and the more recent ones are compressed as well. The 2000 K2 mastering is the most listenable of these; no obvious noise reduction, no compression beyond some mild limiting, and EQ less extreme than the later Japanese masterings.

None of these masterings is ideal, but to my ears the 2004 SACD hybrid is the most natural-sounding option, with the Rhino my second choice."

 

Are the Lola tracks on CDKINK 7251 the same mastering used for the original PRT whole album (CDMP 8836)? If so, I was wondering in what ways the Castle Essential is preferable (for sound quality).

 

"Lola" on CDKINK 7251 is a different mix than the album version.

 

Ah, I didn't realize that. Thought the stereo tracks from the hits might be the same. Is Apeman also a unique mix?

Irrespective of mix, I had thought that the mastering quality of CDMP 8836 would be similar to CDKINK 7251.