Interesting comments on Shure V15 III tracking force and tracking ability

I had my table tracking perfectly but I had to screw with it, like the fool that I am. Basically I was looking at my Shure product catalog from 1977 and noticed the recommended tracking force is maximum 1.25 grams. I was tracking mine at about 1.4 grams based on the 1.5 maximum recommendation of the NOS replacement stylus. When I saw that original spec, I decided to back off the tracking force to 1.25 grams and I've been experimenting with going even lighter. It's currently set at just over a gram and the lighter I go the worse this thing tracks. I'm going back to 1.25 grams and see if I can get it stable again. What do you folks track your V15 at? What is your experience regarding this issue?

 

Prix, FWIW, I only have experience with the Shure M series, not the V15. I always found heavier was better.

 

Prix,

Just my guess, but I'd think not all V15s would track exactly the same. It might had something to do with how compliant your particular cantilever is, or perhaps something else, but I've seem to remember changing stylii and feeling the need to reset the arm. Of course it's often a compromise. Do you want to track 'impossible' records, or give that up for better general performance.

And perhaps the differences in tone arms might suggest slightly different setups. Probably these are not that significant, but you're talking about tenth's of grams.

 

What turntable/tonearm are you using? The V15III wants to see a medium to low mass arm.

Are you using an NOS stylus, or the new MR stylus (a fantastic deal btw)?

I track mine between 1.25 & 1.50, with the new MR stylus from Shure, in a Dual 1019. Tracks great; no problems; sounds sweet. Lighter is not always better. Secure tracking (i.e. no mistracking) within the specified range of tracking force spec'd by the manufacturer will result in minimum record wear.

John Diamantis

 

Had a Type III myself years ago - I used 1.25 and it tracked just fine.
As John says above, don't be tempted to track too lightly as mistracking causes excessive wear on the records.

 

If you have a stylus without the brush assembly then you will find that most records will track to perfection at 1 gram. But this assumes that your anti-skate is properly adjusted and that the mass of the arm is compatible with the stylus. A higher mass arm might require just a hair more force. Too much force will cause the stylus to deflect too much and throw off the tracking angle.

With my AR Turntable and a custom anti-skating device in use I would use .75 grams. With my JVC and the V15 1V and a brush I use 1 gram plus the force needed to compensate for the brush which I think is .5 grams. Never have a tracking problem and I run several tracking test records from AR to confirm this.

Richard.

 

My 30+ year old V15 III (purchased new) is carving its way across a licorice disk as I type. FWIW my experience is that my V15 III sounds best at or near the high end of the recommended range.

 

Welome to SH Forums, lynnm. Gotta love that licorice pizza! So by "high end", you mean on the heavy side...correct? What tracking force do you use? Please fill out your profile so we can see what kind of table you have and what the rest of your system is comprised of.

 

I currently use an Ariston RD80sl turntable with a Grace 707 tonearm. I have the stylus pressure set at about 1.5 grams.

I have updated my profile as requested.

 

You have a Grace 707???!!! I want one of those SO BAD. There was one on audiogon for $125 and I didn't buy it and I am so angry at myself.

 

Grace 707 + Supex 900 on a Linn Sondek - classic 1980 rig.

 

NYNAH NYNAH NYNAH NYNAH NA !

Just teasing ! Yes the Grace is a damned nice little tonearm which was already installed on my old Ariston when I bought it. I can understand your wanting one. That little beggar was designed for quadraphonic cartridges and was claimed to be able to handle signals up to 50Kc. without resonating.

I cannot verify that claim because my hearing is severely compromised because of an old injury and my hearing aids only go to 6Kc !

That said this system sounds damned good to me and my hearing impairment does not (oddly enough) prevent me from distinguishing between good systems and poor ones. That is likely because my impairment did not become apparent/obvious until I was well into my fifties by which point having been "into" quality sound since I was a yard ape I retained a sense/memory of what is good sound and what is der scheise.

Next time you have an opportunity to purchase a 707 NAIL IT!! You will not be disappointed. I have often thought about chasing after an SME but frankly I am so pleased with my little 707 that I will probably leave well enough alone.

 

Lynnm, I am so sorry to hear about your hearing loss. You have a superb system and I hope you still enjoy it. I know my hearing is going. I am in my mid fifties and I monitor my hearing with test records and the occasional visit to the audiologist (they only test to 8KHz). I think I am still good to about 12 KHz but my father eventually had to have hearing aids too. I think he was in his early 70's. I am glad you can still enjoy music.

 

No condolences necessary Amigo!

I bliss out about 14 times a week!

I thank you for your concern but I am too busy at the moment listening to Pete Fountain to respond in more detail.

I've just put fresh batteries in my aids and Pete is singing like a/THE bird !

 

Yep, and considered by many Linn connoisseurs to be a combination that was more than the sum of it's parts, unlike latter Linn/arm/cartridge pairings.
The Grace was a near perfect match for the Linn, more so than the later Ittok and Ekos superarms.

 

That actually sounds quite brutal. (And welcome, BTW. )

Grace 707-II here, and I'm not parting with it. Got it when it was still a current model, and in black. (I recall they had a choice between all-black and silver/black.) Only thing that has bothered me slightly is that I've had to use a metal shim under one side of the cartridge to make sure it is level. (My V15-VMR came with a phony stylus insert to help with alignment.) The headshell on this arm is very slightly tilted, and I'm afraid to try and turn it at all. I asked years ago but nobody had any idea if the screw underneath loosened it, or if it's actually held onto the arm with some kind of adhesive vs. a friction fit. Shim's mechanically tight though, and the cart's perfectly aligned--I should probably leave well enough alone.

 

Yikes! That is the setup I had in 1979 (with Rogers LS3/5A speakers)....and absolutely loved it! I still have my Supex E+, a forerunner of the Koetsu, and someday plan to get it re-tipped. I was definitely a Linnie in those days and it served me quite well for a long time. Eventually I moved to a Basis/Graham combo but just ordered an Avid Sequel/SME V.....just can't get away from those Brits on analog.

Re: the Shure tracking, avoid too light VTF as the groove chatter can damage your LPs. Also, be sure the LTA/overhang is as accurate as possible. Wally's alignment tool is simply the best and provides sonic improvements. HIGHLY recommended.

 

I have my Shure V15VxMR tracking around 1.2 grams with the stabilizer brush up.

Paul

 

Good advice Jim. Many Shure owners run them too light.

 

"Wally's alignment tool is simply the best and provides sonic improvements. HIGHLY recommended."

Where can I find out more about this tool ?

TIA - Lynn

 

Expensive, not sure where you can get it in Canada, in the US check the major websites (Acoustic Sounds, Music Direct, Elusive Disc, Red trumpet, The Needle Doctor, etc.)

 

Wally Malewicz has info on http://www.simplyblack.net - just click "Wally's Corner". His Wally Tractor is probably the best known - each is designed for a specific tonearm. As mentioned before, the sonic benefits are not subtle. The process is rather straightforward but the greater care for the most accurate setting is rewarded. Wally does have other tools as well.

 

Thanks for the link gentlemen!

 

I have a Q about anti-skate settings and my V15 Type V-MR.

If you are compensating for the force emitted by the brush (.5 gram) and thus set your tracking force at 1.5 Grams, then do you set the anti-skate for 1 gram or 1.5 grams as a rule? (assuming that the anti-skate figure given on the Rega Planar 3 that I own is accurate)

 

As for tracking weights, it's my opinion that many listeners use too much anti-skating force. The HiFi News and Record Review Test Record helps adjusting the anti-skating force, although you can do it with music, listening to hear the image snap into focus. I seriously suggest starting with a very low bias - like 1/2 gram - and adding a bit more between auditions until it sounds right. The requirements placed on the anti-skating system vary as the arm tracks the record; as you would expect. Better less than more is my opinion.