Is it foolish to use "vintage" cartridges/stylus?

Over the past few years I have bought two old TT. One a Dual and the other a Rek-O-Kut. Both of them came with old cartridges. The Dual a Shure M32 E and the Rek a Empire 108. I bought a NOS stylus for the Shure and I think it sounds fine. I haven't bought a replacement stylus for the Empire yet. This cartridge is metal covered, looks cool but doesn't that make it a bit heavy? I looked online a I have found that there are replacement needles (what is the plural form of stylus??) for the Empire. My question being, is it bad on my vinyl to use these old cartridges? The Empire came on an Empire tonearm and man is that thing a monster. I don't think I would use that tonearm on any of my vinyl. I bought the Rek because it looks so cool. I think that some day I will put a more modern arm on it. Until then I will just look at it. Does anyone here use these are cartridges and needles? On my "good" TT I use an Ortofon X3 MC so I do use nice modern carts too.

Does anyone have a suggestion for a cheap replacement tonearm for the Rek-O-Kut, that is also easy to put on the TT?

inperson

 

bump

 

Styli.

Wish I could answer your question about vintage cartridges/styli, but I don't know the answer.

 

I'd stay clear of anything requiring excessive tracking force, say in excess of 2g. A lot of folks like the tonality of the older Shure cartridges, but nothing ancient. I think it's the M44 that a lot like to use, but I don't know much about those older models. I'm afraid you kinda get what you pay for with tonearms. The venerable SME 3009 is a nice arm for vintage tables, and the fixed headshell version is a great match for high-compliance cartridges like the Shures. That would be a perfect arm for your Thorens 125 (neat table, btw). You could probably scrounge a functionally perfect but cosmetically imperfect one for a few hundred dollars with some searching. Most prefer the steel bearing, but the later nylon bearing models aren't bad. There's an aftermarket brass bearing currently available as an upgrade that will outdo either. I think it's $100 or so. You'd have a pretty nifty arm with one of those brass bearings installed.

The plural form of stylus is styli *or* styluses, both being grammatically correct.

 

True, although "styli" is much more commonly used.

 

Is the arm on your Empire 'table like the one below?



If it is, I think a number of people still use those. The arm looks massive, but if you put something relatively low-tech on it, like a Stanton 500, it might work.

Just a thought.

 

EDIT:
Never mind - misread the thread.

Sorries!

 

My table is a REK-O-KUT! The ARM is an Empire. It is not an Empire table nor a Thorens 125. Okay?

Thanks for the input though guys

inperson

 

It looks about the same. The one in your picture looks a bit more "modern". The head looks the same but the rest has some differences. Mine is silver and it doesn't have a lift arm.

inperson

 

I agree. I don't use more than 2g. If the stats require more than 2g then I won't use it.

inperson

 

The Stanton 500 series would work quite well with it having looked at the arm's construction, and owning one, I would say it is fine sounding if you use the E elliptical styli. Playing weights set are determined to a large extent by compliance on the part of the cartridge /styli and the extent to which the arm 'plays along'.The SME is a fine tone arm. I've used cartridges whose playing weight has been from 1.5 to 3 grams in the last 3 decades without damage to my records

Regards,

 

Oops, brain cramp. I must've been morphing your thread together with that Grover phono cable thread that's running concurrently to your's. That fella has a 125.

Anyway, the SME 3009 recommendation would still stand. As vintage arms go, that's a maximum bang for your buck situation. I don't know anything about the arm you currently have though, other than it would appear to be of the high-mass variety D), and would thus require a cartridge of low-compliance to avoid resonant frequency issues. I wouldn't use it personally. No point really, IMHO, since you have the other table with the Ortofon and the Dual/Shure combo also. You might play some beat up records on it just for kicks.

 

I acquired a nice M97 Era IV cartridge (introduced 1978) with N97HE stylus and decided to install it on my newly acquired ELAC "Benjamin Miracord" 50H II turntable. I needed a halfway decent turntable that would play 78s, yet wouldn't break the bank. I also happened to acquire a N978E (wide groove 78) stylus, so I installed it. This cartridge has a nice warmer sound, and for 78s (and older LPs), this cartridge is quite sufficient and tracks at lighter forces, around 1.25g to 3g, depending on the stylus used (and for the price I paid for it all, it's an outstanding value). Definitely way better than one of those awful junk "precision crafted in Great Britain by BSR" record players with a 5g tracking force ceramic element cartridge (now that's something I WOULDN'T play my records on).

 

I have always had the impression that the cartridge itself will degrade overtime. As such, even if a brand-new stylus is added, the sound will still be compromised.

 

Hey, I used to own one of them in my early teens. Dad and I got the tracking weight down to about 4 grams with a Sonotone ceramic cartridge before going with a moving magnet one by Tenorel. Afterwards I got a Goldring G101 belt driven single player that has a straight decent arm which would track at 3 grams or less. Horrible things those BSR's - they DID eat records.

Regards,

 

I will let you know next week. I ham restoring my Dual 1229. I will be using my Shure V15 Type III, with a new Jico SAS stylus.

 

Haven't heard the name BSR in a while and speaking of lo fi. Was that a British brand?

 

Yep, as it jokingly said on the platter, "Precision Crafted In Great Britain by BSR". Fortunately, there are some far better brands from that country as well.

Regarding your thoughts on cartridges degrading over time? ...a moving magnet cartridge shouldn't, since there's no moving parts(though there's a few who claim that demagnetization or degaussing records could help ...probably a "placebo effect" thing). Ceramic element cartridges are also said to have a long lifespan (the only thing that could fail on those is the rubber suspension part - but these cartridges are cheap and often track at forces that'll tear records to shreds, even after just one play). Perhaps some older technology crystal element cartridges from the 50s (similar to ceramic) degrade over time due to the breakdown of the materials used in the element(I believe it's referred to as Rochelle Salt crystals used in the making of the cartridge element). I would also have to guess that moving coil cartridges, like speakers, could potentially degrade over time (hours used, not years kept), because of the fact that the coil moves, thus flexing the wiring between the coil and connector (though it'd probably several thousand hours, if ever, before any hint of such problems/issues would occur, especially if the coil is designed right). After all, the flexible connectors on speaker coils can last for many hours without problems. The one issue with mostly all cartridges though is the rubber suspension parts. If they're exposed to air (outside their original packaging), the parts can dry up quicker and change the performance parameters of the cartridge. My thoughts.