Jethro Tull: Thick as a Brick or A Passion Play?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by yesstiles, Apr 5, 2008.

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  1. jacksondownunda

    jacksondownunda Forum Resident

    RESEQUENCING “CHATEAU D’ISASTER TAPES”
    During the ’72 TAAB tour, a few proposed PP songs were previewed including “Bomb In The Dressing Room” (No Rehearsal) and “Left Right”, which both disappeared when the revised PP was recorded.
    I bought the Nightcap Chateau d’Isaster cd solely to hear an early Passion Play. It’s there in fragments, but it’s clearly all bass-ackwards. I noticed that “Scenario” lyrics (near the end of Nightcap) say “..and so the Passion Play’s begun”. Even though this very off-the-cuff track flops around like a dying fish, it’s clearly the “opener”.
    I also noticed that Nightcap’s “Look At The Animals” song bears some musical resemblance to the “Hare” segment in PP, and “animals at the ferry crossing, waiting to be born..” appear at the end of PP. I’m guessing that Ian’s idea of an “animal suite” (“Law Of The Bungle”) survived as “Hare”.
    There are some sequences that would’ve eventually have been edited in the original Chateau d’Isaster. Taking huge artistic license, I’ve resequenced Nightcap Disc 1 “Chateau D’Isaster Tapes” into what I believe is the most logical and ear-pleasing order. Try it, you’ll like it!..

    “Passion Play”is:
    3 Tiger Toon (instrumental, same as PP)
    11 Scenario
    12 Audition
    13 No Rehearsal
    7 Left Right
    8 Solitaire
    9 Critique Oblique
    10 Post Last

    “Law Of The Bungle” is;
    1 First Post (intermission music)
    2 Animelee(intermission music)
    4 Look At The Animals
    5 Law Of The Bungle
    6 Law Of The Bungle (Part 2)
     
  2. >During the ’72 TAAB tour, a few proposed PP songs were previewed including “Bomb In The Dressing Room” (No Rehearsal) and “Left Right”, which both disappeared when the revised PP was recorded.<

    That is during the SECOND (fall) US TaaB tour. And at the Montreal 06-02-73 aPP show, I remember they still played one of the Château pieces, although I can't recall which one... But it wasn't Left Right: I would have loved that one though!

    Great post!
     
  3. ...and further on...

    Just went to the Ministry of Information Tull Tour History page to try (unsuccessfully) to get the Montreal '73 setlist, and realized for the first time that this was the very last concert of the very long North American leg of the first aPP tour, before some three weeks break (i.e. before the Wembley Empire Pool gig back home). It's no wonder, on hindsight, that Tull were in such a wild, crazy mood that night: playing a few choruses of Rock Around The Clock, with Martin Barre in full drag queen attire, with lipstick, blush and all... A friend of mine I am not in touch with anymore took a great 35 mm color shot of this (among other wonderful, pro-level shots of this concert): (to said friend) if you read this and recognize yourself, PLEASE publish these ASAP, ANY OLD WAY you choose!!
     
  4. Guy from Ohio

    Guy from Ohio Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ohio
    I like them both so I didn't vote.

    I remember a Rolling Stones interview with Ian defending APP, saying how even though the critics hated it he was getting lots of letters from 15-year-olds telling him how brilliant it was.

    That, I think, was unfortunate. Every album after APP was aimed at that audience.
     
  5. izgoblin

    izgoblin Forum Resident

    Wow, I expected TAAB to win the vote, but APP is getting crushed.

    Hopefully that says more about how strong BRICK is as opposed to PLAY being weak. :)
     
  6. Larry Geller

    Larry Geller Surround sound lunatic

    Location:
    Bayside, NY
    Combination of the two.
     
  7. tootull

    tootull All elements agree

    Location:
    Canada
    :laugh: If I had another vote I'd vote for "A Passion Play".

    rules :realmad:
     
  8. pbuzby

    pbuzby Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago, IL, US
    I've been listening to a few APP shows recently and the later part of the set has a strange medley of Cross-Eyed Mary (incomplete) -> No Rehearsal -> Thick As A Brick (drum solo/"babies wearing nylons" segment) -> Aqualung
     
  9. I must respectfully disagree here, with few exceptions, Ian's lyrics and music was just as mature post Passion Play as it was before that album. Heavey Horses and SFTW hardly scream out "teen pandering". :)
     
  10. pbuzby

    pbuzby Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chicago, IL, US
    "Sailor" is an outtake from these sessions that would have fit well with the Passion Play concept, although there is a post on j-tull.com denying that this is in the vault. You can hear it here starting at 2:53, seguing out of Skating Away (also reportedly from the Chateau).
     
  11. yesstiles

    yesstiles Senior Member Thread Starter

    Here is a post I pasted from a thread of mine three years ago. Many may find it interesting now:

    Hello all-

    Since we've been talking about A Passion Play, I thought I'd follow up on my mention of their aborted Chateau D'Isaster album. I think I've figured out how this album was to be constructed, giving that the order presented to us on "Nightcap" certainly is not the original order or complete recording. Fans know that in late '72 Tull recorded 3 sides of a double album before scrapping the project. Ultimately, Ian only allowed about 70% of it released on Nightcap in 1993 and presented it in an order better suited to his critical and subjective ear. Another 10% was released on the Warchild album in 1974. Because this music is my favorite of all Tull music, except for A Passion Play Side 2 and Baker St. Muse, I've been searching for the identity of this album for a while. This is how I think it was meant to be:

    Chateau D'Isaster

    Side 1 (22 min)

    1. Prelude
    2. Scenario
    3. Audition
    4. Skating Away (On the Thin Ice of the New Day)
    5. Sailor
    6. No Rehearsal


    Side 2 (22 min)

    1. First Post
    2. Animelee
    3. Tiger Toon
    4. Look at the Animals
    5. Law of the Bungle
    6. Law of the Bungle Part II
    7. Bungle in the Jungle (without strings)


    Side 3 (21 min)

    1. Left Right
    2. Solitaire
    3. Critique Oblique
    4. Post Last


    Side 4 (?? min)

    Unrecorded



    Well, having the bootleg that contains the very rare additions Prelude, Skating Away, and Sailor, as well as the altered versions of Scenario, Audition and No Rehearsal all helps to make more sense of the album. It also provides more enjoyment and gives a better cohesive feel to listenings. The 3 recorded sides all have similar lyrical content and musical segues. Side 1 carries the God and Theatre concept, Side 2 has the Man and Animal concept, and Side 3 has the Man and Critic concept. Side 4 - who knows? I believe that Bungle in the Jungle was written for this album, but possibly not recorded until the Warchild sessions. So it may have been placed on Side 4 if they hadn't abandoned the project. Obviously, since it contains the word "bungle" like two other songs on this album, it must have been meant to be placed somewhere here. Side 2, at only 18 minutes (without Bungle in the Jungle) and the side containing the other "bungle" songs is also a real possibility, so I included it there. Personally, since Side 1 of A Passion Play contains many musical elements of this album, I like to think the last 19 minutes of A Passion Play (Side 2 following the Hare story) would be the perfect Side 4 to Chateau D'Isaster. If presented in 1973 as a double album with the above order and Side 2 of APP as Side 4 of Chateau, it would have been the ultimate and by far best Tull album; a true prog classic!
    Some of you have been used to hearing Scenario/Audition/No Rehearsal all in a row and at the end of the album, but I think they were originally to be placed near the front. Ian I'm sure knew that fans were familiar with those pieces from the 20th Anniversary box set, so he placed them at the end of the Nightcap cd; also to leave the end on a better note, since they actually never completed the end of the album. Also, Scenario and Audition are connected without a true break, whereas No Rehearsal does have a second or two of silence. Additionally, each Side I've presented has songs that contain no audible breaks between them (for the most part), but do have breaks between the proposed Sides. So that reinforces my position as well.
    Well, hopefully I've piqued the curiosity of those who love this period of Jethro Tull and the rest just delete the overly long post. Any thoughts anyone?

    -thanks

    ......p.s. Here's the link to the original thread:

    http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=51594&highlight=tull+passion+play
     
  12. yesstiles

    yesstiles Senior Member Thread Starter

    Makes a great cdr!
     
  13. rbienstock

    rbienstock New Member

    Location:
    New York, NY
    I think that that would be "Hard Hearted English General" which is a piece I love and that has never surfaced except for a bootleg MP3 somewhere on the net.
     
  14. LouReed9

    LouReed9 Village Idiot

    Location:
    Philly Burbs
    Thick as a Brick
     
  15. Lontano

    Lontano Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
  16. Lord_Gastwick

    Lord_Gastwick Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Pasadena, CA, USA
    Would have been APP, but for The Hare. Only listenable once, that thing, and my current CD isn't banded for easy skippage, which is annoying. So a vote for TaaB here.
     
  17. Markieo

    Markieo New Member

    Location:
    Greensboro, NC
    If I had to choose between TAAB and APP, I'd choose Benefit!
     
  18. vinyl diehard

    vinyl diehard Two-Channel Forever

    Thick as a Brick for me. The Story of the Hare Who Lost His Spectacles is just silly, but the rest of the album is pretty solid. Just listened to it last night.
     
  19. vinyl diehard

    vinyl diehard Two-Channel Forever

    :confused: Thanks for chiming in. When you're in a less confused state please feel free to try again.:D
     
  20. vinyl diehard

    vinyl diehard Two-Channel Forever

    That's a good analysis. Too bad you couldn't get I.A. to verify how accurate your research is. That would be perfect!
     
  21. nolazep

    nolazep I drink and I know things

    Brick because it rocks. Passion Play meanders too much for my taste. Kinda similar to Close to the Edge versus Topographic Oceans.
     
  22. Todd W.

    Todd W. It's a Puggle

    Location:
    Maryland
    Gotta go Thick as a Brick on this one. It just flows better for me.
     
  23. ponkine

    ponkine Forum Resident

    Thick as a Brick. By far

    no contest :righton:
     
  24. Roninblues

    Roninblues 猿も木から落ちる。

    Thick as a...

    as long as it hasn't been brick-walled.
     
  25. drewslo

    drewslo Forum Resident

    I prefer "Passion" but i've edited out "The Hare".
     
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