That would probably help too. But getting the sub away from the floor is much like getting a speaker away from the side walls. The floor is the most reactive of all boundaries.
I'm not sure if it's a good thing or a bad thing but my sub is a Klipsch front firing and has a matching rear firing passive element the same size as the front. Giving it some breathing room in the back seems like a no-brainer... not sure why I never thought about that before now...
I have to disagree with this, especially the 18 inches you state. My disagreement isn't based on anything other than the fact that no major sub maker recommends this, and even more telling is no major sub maker sells stands designed to raise their subs off the ground. If raising your sub a foot or more off the ground, someone is going to cash in on this by making "audiophile approved" stands. The only product I can think of is the Auralex Subdude, which raises the sub a couple inches. I have one sub sitting on a Subdude, while the other sub is sitting on a 2 inch thick butcher block.
Raising a sub that high would be like the middle sub in a stacked Rel 6-pack, I would presume. When you put a sub higher it 'adds' or 'breathes' life into other frequencies. At least that's how the Rel stack works. Which is what I experienced more or less when I tilted my subwoofer (adjusting the rake angle slightly upwards, aiming towards me), it appeared to 'couple' better with my speakers, making bass and anything upwards to sound more clear. No subwoofer brand ever mentioned tilting a subwoofer afaik, still it sounds way better (to me).
I raised my REL on a platform 6" and it went 'dead', hollow, no impact, etc. Mine is front firing with a down pointing passive.
it can work in a situation where you have no easy way to have enough clearance to wall boundaries. not ideal for sure and if it were my room i would rearrange it to give the sub enough space to avoid response peaks. response peaks are nasty and turn good subs into one note wonders that often have hard, distorted sound. lifting might help.
Actually ASC makes an 18" box, there are other sizes, thats also a bass treatment device specifically for getting subs off the floor. I've been using one for years with many subs with excellent results. The boxes also treat the bass response in the room when not using a sub.
I just repositioned my speakers using the Cardas Room Calculator, and then did the Smith measurements. I'm at .8235%.
It's great that raising your sub off the ground enhanced your enjoyment, but man, that is one expensive ($699) little stand ASC sells. I think it kind of makes my point though. If any major subwoofer manufacturer thought it was beneficial to raise their subs off the ground, they'd be happy to sell stands for them. I checked a couple web sites and found nothing.
I payed about half that I'm guessing about 12 years ago. I always wondered why manufactures didn't offer a stand. Although many manufactures offer stand up or stacked subs. All I can add is that it's worked excellent for me through multiple subs and multiple rooms. I honestly can't recall a single time when it didn't help.
The Magic 83% Formula is nice, easy and has shown to provide reliable results. That is all good. It's just that it is just two tape, or laser, measurements with absolutely no accounting for anything in the realm of speaker-room interface whatsoever. Seems to me that placing speakers in a room in a house is all about the speaker-room interface.
I learned that the hard way, lol I had them at 9 and 11, 9/11 ~ 0.82 Did some measurements and listening. Did not sound 'right'. Too close to the walls and and had some ugly reflections. My seating location is pretty much fixed. I adjusted to 8.3 and 10 which you think would make little difference. Moved them out from the wall almost a foot and side walls 3 or 4". Listening now, much better. All clearances need factored in.
Well, what I was getting at is that the 83% Magic Formula is a great and reliable formula for finding a listening spot. But it doesn't really do anything for determining where to place the speakers in the room. I'll just start here for that: A Master Class in speaker placement - YouTube What I got out of this is to not place your speakers on a room mode or null. It's a start.
It doesn't matter so much that speakers are in a null or mode. The speakers are going to pressurize the room no matter where they are in the room. Speaker placement should consider reflections not modes and nulls. Listener placement should be more concerned with nulls and modes. Speaker placement should avoid room boundaries for the same reason bass traps are more effective in those same room boundaries because that is where pressurization will be at it's most severe.
I ended up spreading the speakers apart 10" and putting the sub on top of the 16" tall Kallax unit, where it now partially blocks the window- the bottom of the window is only 24" above the floor. Con is I can't open the plantation shutter on that side of the window now. The sub is fine on the floor moved away from the corner as shown so I'll probably move it back there to keep the esthetics of room correct.
Interesting thread. Jim suggests starting with a LP that will give you smooth bass response. But where to start? First off: most LP's are dictated somewhat by where the speakers will be placed in the room, allowing for reasonable distances apart & from LP, and distance from walls, especially in less-than-perfect rectangular rooms with the usual entry ways and other architectural features. As for LP, my general rule is no corners, not against the back wall, and symmetrical with the speakers. Secondly: one can't know experientially where the room nodes fall, and...hence...the "best" LP for smooth bass...until the room is energized by speakers. I've always started with my speakers and LP in the best-guess spots based on years of experience and then gone from there. Incidentally...my current setup...which I arrived at my ear plus bass sweeps and PEQ adjustments to the sub...was at .77. (The bass sweeps and tweaks helped reveal obvious problems and the PEQ adjustments helped cure them, but...as always...I still had to do final evaluation by ear, especially regarding the sub volume that I prefer on most material vs that determined by sweep graph only.) I moved the LP slightly forward to the .83 mark...something I normally do anyway by moving my head forward at times...and found...that the .83 placement sounded good. Better than .77? Maybe, but I didn't want to spend time moving the LP back-and-forth and listening. I trust that I'll discover over time which I prefer.
From my understanding according to the WASP (Wilson Audio Set up Procedure, the speaker's first need to be placed in the "zone of neutrality" and only then does one begin to set a listening position, and then possibly manipulate the .83 rule. If the speakers are sounding boomy or bass is dead because of back or sidewall interactions then just using the .83 rule will not yield good results. Only a few folks here have mentioned the zone of neutrality. Or am I missing something?
I have 2 cork/rubber isolators, very stiff. Same size as the feet x 3/4". +4 deg. I'll try them later. Thnx
This was the most confusing post I’ve read in this thread until I realized LP was listening position and not long play. Once that was sorted out, it made sense.
