Such a great thread guys (and gals), thanks to one and all for sharing in it, and A BIG shout~out to thee Thread Starter Purple Jimi!
one of the ambulance men said in tony browns book that when they got the flat and found Jimi he had been dead for hours and there was vomit and wine everywhere..
Yes. And Brown's book (Hendrix: The Final Days, Omnibus Press 1997) is the best source of information on the last weeks of Hendrix's life IMHO. It's a serious piece of journalism with not a whiff of sensationalism about it. Highly recommended.
I'll say I don't know a lot of the details of Jimi's death, and I've never seen this woman before, but to me watching this interview, she seems perfectly credible. But the thing is, it does seems odd that he was still alive in the hospital and they were not able to revive him from just 9 sleeping pills. That is interesting and somewhat hard to believe. Do most people not believe this girlfriend, Monika?
Reading over some of the opinions of Jimi and his drug use on that final 1970 tour reminds me of a really long debate I guess you could say on the old Hey Joe mailing list. I'm not going to rehash it much, but the other gentlemen was convinced hook line and sinker that Jimi was a hardened drug user using copious amounts of anything, and on this tour, it came home to roost so to speak. Personally, I disagree with that characterization. Did Jimi use drugs? Of course, he did. Was he out of control with them? I don't think so. As far as stories go, I feel there is a tenacity to play up alleged drug use. The old "Oh man I was so high, but you have seen Jimi! He was so high and took so much and was still playing kick ass guitar".. blah blah blah. Things I consider. 1. Jimi was making a lot of progress on his album. Someone in the grip of drug addiction isn't going to leave the amount of work that Jimi left. 50 years later they are still pumping & recycling alternate takes and little bits and pieces and yet there is still more hiding in the vaults. 2. In terms of Isle of Wright. Much is made of how tired he is. In my own experience of flying across oceans, flying east is harder than going west. It's a 5 hour time difference between London & New York. If he had been working in the studio and then gets on a plane for something like 8 hours, probably not sleeping, get's off the plane, and then has to go to Isle of Wright to do this show. Add in drinking, probably little eating and I'm sure ingesting of substances is it any wonder he was tired? 3. In my experience flying across oceans, the first thing that happens to me is a sore throat, running nose, and as I get more tired upset stomach follows. Add in the stuff Jimi is already doing such as alcohol & whatever drug he happens to be taking of course he is going to be sick. Maybe he had these symptoms from traveling or maybe not. 4. At this point jet lag has probably kicked in on Jimi yet he still has this really full schedule. Recipe for disaster. When I have come from Asia to the west coast there are times during the first days back when I just have to sleep. I literally can't stay awake. Is this case with Jimi? I have no idea, but it is a real thing, and if Jimi was using substances to stay awake.... there you go 5. Which leads me to think if anything Jimi would have probably been having using things to stay awake not sleep, which plays into when he got back to London he couldn't sleep. His internal clock at that point was probably a mess traveling all over Europe and the different time zones. Which may have been why he took so many sleeping pills. 6. Jimi while certainly skinny, looks fairly clear-eyed in all the photos from Ferham. He certainly doesn't have the look of someone who is going to die 12 days later. Those are some things I consider. Of course, Jimi used drugs. Was he a heroin user? I don't really know. Jimi doesn't strike me as a needle user and I would think by this point in time it would have come out if he was so perhaps he only snorted it. Really I think his death was nothing more than a tragic accident brought around by really just bad luck. If he had a better girlfriend he probably would have survived.
Dudes! I was just lookin' at them bitchin' pictures of Jimi what I posted earlier today, and when I looked the the Purple Jimi Hendix Experience one I noted something I never saw before, at least in this picture///... Maybe it was edited, an arm is missing Or? But it looks like Noel is putting his hand down Jimi's pants!, but it is Jimi's Larger Hand?... so to speak... Easy.... Rider!
Everything you've said here rings true to me. I think he was in a bad spot dealing with a horrible schedule that really screwed up his system. The rest with the girlfriend and timing there was as you say, probably just wrong place, wrong time bad luck.
Alcohol was also involved. Alcohol potentiates central nervous system depressants, which is to say that its effect isn't just additive, but it increases their power 5 to 10-fold. Especially barbiturates, the main active ingredient in Vesperax, the pills that he took. Secobarbital/brallobarbital/hydroxyzine - Wikipedia "Secobarbital/brallobarbital/hydroxyzine was a combination tablet containing 50 mg brallobarbital, 150 mg secobarbital and 50 mg hydroxyzine[1] that was used as a sedative. It was sold under the brand name Vesparax. This drug has been withdrawn from the market in most countries. Hydroxyzine and secobarbital lengthen the half-life of brallobarbital. Because of this long half-life, it has symptoms resembling a hangover on the next day.[2][3] Jimi Hendrix was under the influence of Vesparax when he died of asphyxia due to aspiration of vomit on 18 September 1970." I'm not familiar with brallobarbital. But I know what secobarbital is- it's the same active ingredient as the once fairly commonly prescribed barbiturate sold in the US under the brand name Seconal, also known as "red devils" or "reds" on the American street market in the 1960s and 1970s. One Seconal was 100mg, or 2/3 the amount of secobarbital in a Vesperax. I say "was" because Vesperax, Seconal, and the other powerful barbiturates (notably pentobarbital, or "yellows", amobarbital aka Amytal aka "blues", and the combination Tuinal, a mix of "reds" and "blues" marketed in a red/blue cap) were withdrawn from the market decades ago. Nowadays they're all viewed in most parts of the world as much too dangerous to be prescribed as a sleeping pill. Especially in a culture where alcohol is ubiquitous, and casually consumed. Even when consumed alone, they pack a wallop. They also produce a heavy tolerance after a few weeks or months of daily use, and are so physically addictive that stopping habitual use all at once carries the risk of lead to convulsions and death.Which is to say that instant withdrawal for barbiturate addicts is akin to alcohol withdrawal for confirmed alcoholics- worse than most opioids, which carry little risk of death despite the miseries of "cold turkey" (although I've read that withdrawal from the newly popular ultra-potent synthetics like fentanyl can also lead to convulsions and death, if those drugs are stopped cold instead of by stepping down slowly.) So the amount of secobarbital alone in nine Vesperax is the equivalent of 13.5 Seconal capsules. That's not counting the brallobarbital and the hydroxyzine, and the alcohol. That's easily a lethal dose, for most occasional users; it's possible that Jimi had a tolerance, but even at that, it's a scarily large amount of downers and alcohol. It's common for people who have taken an amount that large to get physically nauseous and vomit- unfortunately, CNS depressants work to shut down the choking reflex that keeps the contents of the esophagus away from the windpipe. So dying in that condition is as easy as choking on ones own vomit, even without the result of actual toxic overdose, which results when the drugs shut down the breathing reflex. That's apparently what happened to Jimi- he choked on his vomit. This is the first time I really got into the toxicology of the case; I didn't realize how powerful Vesperax is, and didn't recall that Jimi is said to have taken nine of them, on top of drinking wine. Nine- really? It's worth noting that one of the common side effects of ingesting downers as powerful as Vesperax is that the users sometimes forget how many they've already taken and then take more, which is yet another reason why they were withdrawn from the market. But nine Vesperax- that's a reckless amount. A first-time user would be out like a light within 30 minutes after one tablet, especially if they had a couple of glasses of wine in them. Even downer freaks using strong barbiturates for recreation frequently enough to get a tolerance seldom took more than three reds at a time, along with a quart (or maybe two) of wine- and often additionally using some type of strong stimulant, in order to offset the sedation.
Do night owls have "internal clocks"? I assume IOW were running hours behind schedule. Did Billy Cox join the party in the 15 months around Jimi? The Bill Graham Presents book had a BOG on NYE story that implies he did and explains why that 2nd show came apart.
Interesting post on the toxicology! Reminds me of John Mayall's tribute song to him on his fantastic Back To The Roots 2Lp (with Clapton on guitar) "Accidental Suicide!" Bye the bye, I have stayed at the Panama Hotel before, a very nice place!
The source is hospital protocol for arrivals and what determines Emergency proceedures. If Jimi had been dead for hours (as has been intimated in various books) his body would have been stiff (rigor mortis) and blotched (livor mortis) and under no circumstances would he have been admitted to Casualty and to the resuscitation room. He would have gone directly to the morgue. Doctors in Emergencies never try and revive long-dead, blue stiffs. The quotes from Dr. Seifert and a hospital spokesman (press report) that I posted earlier prove that Jimi died in the ambulance or in Casualty. We know for certain that CPR was carried out and this informs us that Jimi was in a critical situation and not completely dead. Doctors perform CPR on patients that have a chance of being recuperated and it is performed if there is no breathing and no pulse but that doesn't mean that the patient is yet brain dead (biologically dead). The window of opportunity for recuperation is about 1 to 10 minites. I think the world record is 15 minutes. It is possible that Jimi had passed away an hour before the CPR proceedures (at 10:45 when Monica was dithering around in fear and confusion) with stiffness and lividity not yet visible (it takes a little over an hour to appear) and thus doctors can be in the doubt and must try CPR just in case. As for the ambulance men's accounts, one of them (John Suau) was shown what was in the books and he said that it wasn't true and that Jimi was alive at the Samarkand and that he died in the ambulance on arrival - which corresponds with what the hospital spokesperson announced to the press and more importantly, what was reported at the inquest. The ambulance men's accounts originated from texts by Kathy Etchingham, orchestrated by Dee Mitchell who Kathy later found out was a stalking fraud. So in light of Suau's rejection of the accounts, we can take them with a pinch of salt.
What amazes me is that even 50 years after these overdoses, most of the people who use CNS drugs- which include benzodiazepines like Valium and Xanax, along with opioids, even the "mild" codeine and Vicodin- don't realize how dangerous that class of chemicals is when they're combined together, or mixed with alcohol. I'd go so far as to say that more users of illicit drugs in the drug culture of the 1970s were aware of those facts than are aware of them in 2021. Even most of the people prescribed drugs like Valium and Xanax don't realize exactly how much more powerful their effects are when mixed with alcohol. Although if they've ever popped 5-10mg of Valium and then had a couple of drinks, they almost certainly have some blurry idea. Back in the 1970s, I read that one 5mg Valium tablet combined with one 12 oz. beer was the equivalent of 50mg of Valium! That is not an exaggeration. No one catches a buzz off of 10mg of Valium taken on its own, but the effect of adding one beer to 10mg of Valium is dramatic. The problem is, the hazard of overdose- and severe intoxication- goes through the roof. Someone of adult weight who swallows 50 10mg Valium in a suicide attempt will probably knock themselves unconscious if they can manage to keep them all down without throwing up, but they'll manage to wake up after a day or two. But someone who takes 10-20 10mg Valium and combines it with a large quantity of alcohol, like a quart of vodka, is entirely likely to succeed at killing themselves, or going into an extended coma that leaves them with permanent brain damage, paralysis, incidental accidents that lead to 3rd degree burns, you name it. And whatever this 1990s/21 century teenage fad is for combining downers, even "mild" ones- say, Vicodin,Valium, and alcohol, or some similar mix- that's just idiotic. It's chemical Russian roulette. The cylinder might be loaded with 49 empties and 1 bullet instead of 5 empties and 1 bullet, but those odds are still much too risky. The stakes are too high. That isn't even getting into ingredients like street heroin and fentanyl.
He snorted heroin, never injected. Less cost effective, but rock stars can afford it. "In the grip of drug addiction.." Things are not that black and white. Not every heroin user is a heavy duty addict living on the street. Most have a honeymoon period where they limit their use to weekends for example. They're chipping. Jimi's use of whatever drugs was never a hindrance for him producing new material. So his recordings at Electric Lady are in no way a proof of him not being on heroin. Hell, a lot or artists have made their best work on the drug.
Best work on the drug is a tired old argument. Sure maybe for a short time but over the long haul, it's never that way.
Thanks for the correction guys; I forgot about the 2014 cd reissues, and I even bought Rainbow Bridge then, but I stuck with my original Cd of Cry of Love. Nevertheless, the point I was making was that the Cry of Love Lp was not released "in his lifetime." AND, the 1970 tours were not called the "Cry of Love" tours at the time... I suspect this Jimi Hendrix "tour" shirt was made much later than 1970, anyone know>?
I don't know about 'most people', but many don't, and for good reason IMO. From what I've read, she comes across as a bunny-boiling fantasist; add to that the fact she's changed her story at least once, I forget...like, the greatest rock musician the world had ever seen dies in your flat, and you can't remember consistently what happened? Okaaaay. Having recently read the Lawrence book, Mon doesn't come out of it at all well. idk whether Sharon had an axe to grind, but even if she did, she doesn't pull any punches.
Bottom line for me is that for whatever reasons anyone choses to name Jimi seemed at times to be run down physically and or mentally from at least IOW onwards.
Do you know if the quinalbarbitone level noted in the autopsy corresponds to 9 Vesparax pills? Note that the whole "9 pills" thing comes ONLY from Monika (unless the answer to my above question confirms it). Over the course of her many statements and interviews, she also said that SHE took a pill that morning and we know that the police found a pill by the bed - which brings us in fact to 8 pills. Monika also said that Jimi had taken a Vesparax pill earlier than the morning of the 18th - which would bring us to 7 pills. The thing is, thes pills were prescribed to Monika, so for all we know, she might have been taking one a night for many days! It looks to me that she invented the story of Jimi helping himself to 9 pills (and got her maths wrong in doing so) as she desperately tried to shift the blame from herself for having contributed to the death of an internationally famous rock star. She said to Bild magazine and to Kathy, Mitch and Noel (when they all reunited in the late 80s/early 90s) that SHE gave Jimi the tablets and when they didn't appear to work she "gave him some more"! SOME MORE!! WTF? There is also Buzzy Linhart's account to take into consideration. He was in New York when he heard of Jimi's death. He went to Electric Lady Studios to find out more and received a phone call: "I picked up the telephone on the receptionist's desk and it was Dolly Dagger (Devon Wilson) telling me I had to believe her. What she told me was that Jimi had called her the day or so before and told her that he had been up for days. He had talked to his doctor in New York City and the doctor said "You've got to get some sleep" - the doctor said "Do you want me to call in some sleeping pills for you to a doctor I know in London?" Jimi said" No, that's OK, there's Tuinaols in the medicine cabinet in the bathroom here." They agreed that Jimi- having a great tolerance to this type of drug -would need to take 3 capsules. But this turned out to be the German Tuinaols which were the EQUIVALENT of three a piece, so they turned out to have the potency of 9 of his usual Tuinol capsules." (from Inside The Legacy Of Jimi Hendrix by Joe Viglione and Buzzy Linhart) If we are to take Devon's (and Buzzy's) account as being factual, Jimi's U.S. doctor (no idea who that was) gave Jimi the go-ahead to take 3 tablets. The doctor perhaps had only Jimi's word that the pills were Tuinals. Jimi in fact had Monika's super strong German prescription Vesparax pills in his hand but perhaps recognised their listed contents and simply called them "Tuinals" (which was the brand name he was familiar with). This would again mean that Jimi had already tried the Vesparax tablets before the 18th! This seems perfectly plausible because he had evidently phoned his own doctor expressing his desire to take the pills! So the "9 pills" thing seems like rubbish. It all depends on how many pills correspond to the toxicology report (if that is possible to calculate).
