Joy Division on CD

I got Heart and Soul in the mail a couple weeks ago because of that great price and although I haven't heard the recent remasters, it isn't loud at all.

Agreed about what someone else said, it was a big mistake not including the iconic album coves in this set, especially in that thick booklet.

Also, while the original album isn't split up, the bonus material is instead placed chronologically on their respective discs, so on the UP disc the actual album doesn't start until track 3. Kind of annoying, but not a deal breaker.

 

I nearly cried (literally) when I heard the 30CY. I suspected it would have the same qualities of the 25CY of UP and Closer. My hopes were met. I haven't directly A/B'd Love Will Tear Us Apart with Steve's, but from memory I'm pretty sure that the 30CY beats it.

My audio system is "budget" high end, but I have addressed, at least to some degree, many of the concerns that one might address. Speakers and listening position are roughly rule of thirds. Richard Gray AC filter (noise floor drops quite nicely!). Cylinder bass traps. The sound for these Japan JD CDs is pretty darn on point. The system and room really disappear. A surprisingly nice "in the room" experience!

 

I agree about not having the album/single covers represented in the set, also about the running order, I've always found that kind of thing irksome. But for me, as I said earlier, I've got most of the vinyl and at this price the box is just for convenience. Good to hear it's not overly loud.

 

I know it is a bit off topic.. but what do most people feel about the vinyl remasters?

 

JH901 - taken from a another JD thread on this forum here are the EAC peak levels for the Japan box - how do they compare to your individual Japan issues:-

Unknown Pleasures

Track 1 79.5 %
Track 2 85.6 %
Track 3 100.0 %
Track 4 99.9 %
Track 5 100.0 %
Track 6 90.2 %
Track 7 86.9 %
Track 8 99.6 %
Track 9 100.0 %
Track 10 100.0 %


Closer

Track 1 99.4 %
Track 2 88.0 %
Track 3 100.0 %
Track 4 85.3 %
Track 5 82.9 %
Track 6 93.6 %
Track 7 90.6 %
Track 8 86.8 %
Track 9 92.8 %


Still

Track 1 100.0 %
Track 2 92.0 %
Track 3 100.0 %
Track 4 100.0 %
Track 5 100.0 %
Track 6 100.0 %
Track 7 99.9 %
Track 8 96.7 %
Track 9 100.0 %
Track 10 100.0 %
Track 11 100.0 %
Track 12 95.8 %
Track 13 100.0 %
Track 14 98.7 %
Track 15 98.6 %
Track 16 96.1 %
Track 17 89.8 %
Track 18 94.0 %
Track 19 88.0 %
Track 20 79.2 %


Substance

Track 1 100.0 %
Track 2 76.7 %
Track 3 95.7 %
Track 4 100.0 %
Track 5 86.4 %
Track 6 91.1 %
Track 7 92.1 %
Track 8 88.7 %
Track 9 92.4 %
Track 10 95.4 %
Track 11 82.2 %
Track 12 89.9 %
Track 13 100.0 %
Track 14 100.0 %
Track 15 100.0 %
Track 16 96.4 %
Track 17 98.1 %


Atmosphere

Track 1 (Atmosphere (Original Mix)) 100.0 %
Track 2 (She's Lost Control) 83.4 %

 

Oh boy. EAC. I still don't have EAC downloaded since I use dBpoweramp.

If peak levels are easy to run with EAC, then I'll give it a shot.....

 

Yeah it is pretty easy with EAC to test the peak levels.

Load your CD - select (highlight) all the tracks - right click and choose "Test Selected Tracks". This will generate a log which you can save as a file if you wish.

If you do this it will be interesting to see if your earlier Jap discs are the same master as the Jap Box.

 

OK. So Substance 30CY matches the disc in the Japan Box, which I suspected. I might try UP or Closer just in case, but I'd assume they are the same also. I'm going to have offer up a face-off with those claiming that the UK issues are the best!!

I will also consume raw crow if the H&S box or any recent remaster touches the original 25CY of UP, Closer or the tracks on 30CY Substance.

Track 1

Filename Track01.wav

Peak level 100.0 %
Extraction speed 14.4 X
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 2A0F4D1F
Copy OK

Track 2

Filename Track02.wav

Peak level 76.7 %
Extraction speed 16.4 X
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 2DE834DC
Copy OK

Track 3

Filename Track03.wav

Peak level 95.7 %
Extraction speed 17.4 X
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC A336CA0E
Copy OK

Track 4

Filename Track04.wav

Peak level 100.0 %
Extraction speed 17.7 X
Track quality 99.9 %
Test CRC 9A6AADF8
Copy OK

Track 5

Filename Track05.wav

Peak level 86.4 %
Extraction speed 16.8 X
Track quality 99.9 %
Test CRC B5C1ED78
Copy OK

Track 6

Filename Track06.wav

Peak level 91.1 %
Extraction speed 20.3 X
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 9F90D4D1
Copy OK

Track 7

Filename Track07.wav

Peak level 92.1 %
Extraction speed 18.5 X
Track quality 99.8 %
Test CRC A9875074
Copy OK

Track 8

Filename Track08.wav

Peak level 88.7 %
Extraction speed 22.1 X
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 1A519940
Copy OK

Track 9

Filename Track09.wav

Peak level 92.4 %
Extraction speed 24.6 X
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC DFA5E9FB
Copy OK

Track 10

Filename Track10.wav

Peak level 95.4 %
Extraction speed 21.0 X
Track quality 99.8 %
Test CRC 0F58295D
Copy OK

Track 11

Filename Track11.wav

Peak level 82.2 %
Extraction speed 23.7 X
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 354597C4
Copy OK

Track 12

Filename Track12.wav

Peak level 89.9 %
Extraction speed 26.6 X
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 39D0D154
Copy OK

Track 13

Filename Track13.wav

Peak level 100.0 %
Extraction speed 23.4 X
Track quality 99.9 %
Test CRC A2E601F1
Copy OK

Track 14

Filename Track14.wav

Peak level 100.0 %
Extraction speed 23.0 X
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 6282C184
Copy OK

Track 15

Filename Track15.wav

Peak level 100.0 %
Extraction speed 24.1 X
Track quality 99.9 %
Test CRC A7C6039D
Copy OK

Track 16

Filename Track16.wav

Peak level 96.4 %
Extraction speed 22.6 X
Track quality 99.9 %
Test CRC BF1E7EDF
Copy OK

Track 17

Filename Track17.wav

Peak level 98.1 %
Extraction speed 26.2 X
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 860086FA
Copy OK

 

I had the UK CDs, but chucked them when I got H&S (didn't know any better back then). I don't know if I'd ever be interested enough to check out the Japanese discs, but I'll probably pick up the original Factory discs sometime. Anyway, I'm keeping an eye on what you think.

 

Jh901 - thanks for your efforts with EAC. It was definitely worth it as it confirms that you have the best CD version of Substance available. When I heard the Jap box I realised these masterings wipe the floor with the UK original discs.

The UK Factory CDs are nice to have (I have the original car carry cases too). However, despite the fact that the UK discs are widely touted as the best sounding on here - I really feel this is not the case. In fact the later Centredate issues were exact clones of the Factory discs (I have confirmed this with EAC). It is also rumoured that because they did not have the masters to hand London records used the Factory/Centredate CDs to put together the H&S box (although EQing was done). Mind you the H&S box is still worth having for all the rare tracks featured.

....however, if you want the best sound outside of original vinyl then track down either the Jap box or individual Japanese issues. These are a unique mastering and really put a smile on my face.

NB. I had the Plus Minus Singles box delivered this week and like a lot of people (due to a warehouse cockup) didn't get the deluxe CDs promised. Once I get the CDs - I'll report back - these tracks are supposed to be a brand new mastering by Frank Arkwright/Steve Morris.

 

Thanks for the note Kevin.

Theadmans- I do want the original Factory UK CDs just to have them. I don't know what the car carry cases are, but I'll take 'em!

I very much want an Exc example of 30CY Substance (w/OBI) since mine is a play copy, which I'll sell on the forum for cheap. I don't have Still CY-4205/6 yet either since I don't care to pay very much.

The Japan Box is something I'll fork over some decent change for (Exc w/OBI). I'm guessing it will take a couple years for the right opportunity to find me.

As for sound quality, I really think it takes a pretty decent set-up to really appreciate "grail" masterings, including these early JD issues. My little desktop system streams bit perfect flac to a squeezebox duet playing audioengine2s- not bad. But compared to my main system, which isn't even too hi-end, there is just a leap that is hard to believe without hearing it.

Cheers!

 

....the car carry cases were like cardboard mini LP sleeves provided as an extra with the initial purchases of the Jewel Cased Factory CDs in the UK. The idea was Tony Wilson's - Tony had one of the early Car cd players. The idea was these thin card sleeves were easier to store in your car than the jewel cases. These Joy Division / New Order car carry cases are now very collectible.







...BTW my copies are in mint condition but the above scans I found on Discogs look well used !

 

I just got the 2008 Heart and Soul box (I bought it on sale from the UK). Anyway, I did a wav form comparison and EAC test. On the 2008 Heart and Soul box set every EAC reading was at 96.5. I found this odd, so that is when I decided to check all the other digital versions of the song Shadowplay I have on hand. Here is what I found.

Heart and Soul (2008): EAC: 96.5%
2008 Remaster: EAC: 100%
Qwest (9 25840-2) EAC: 87.2%

Anyway, my question is am I doing something wrong??? or did they set limits at 96.5 on the Heart and Soul 2008 box set.

would to show you .wav form images if I knew how to copy them...

 

I have H&S from a long time ago. Either late 1997 or early '98, when it came out. I'll check disc one when I get home if no else does by then.

 

....how interesting - I just checked my Disc One from my 1997 original UK version of H & S and like you I got 96.5 % for every single track. You are clearly doing this correctly so I will not check all the other discs.

This seems bizarre - does anyone know why they might have done this ? I have seen 100% before for every track but to have 96.5% for every disc across a whole boxset is strange.

Someone told me that this boxset was actually mastered mainly from the old Factory CDs (rather than the master tapes). The best boxset to get for sound is the Japanese set of the original albums (plus Atmosphere as a CD Single). Having said that - H&S has some unique tracks - so is a must have for all fans of the band.

 

Well at least we know that the 2008 box set is the same as the 1997. I do like the packaging a lot.

Anyway, I can't find the Japanese box set... anyone know where to get it??

 

...the Japanese set is now very rare - it occasionally appears on eBay - but will not be cheap:-

http://www.discogs.com/Joy-Division-1977-1980/release/2014714

 

Boy, I'd really love of those. It passed me by completely, and I was pretty across imports circa 1991!

 

There is actually a good reason for this. Having the peaks all below 100% reduces intersample peak distortion.

I've seen some discs at 97.7% and other values just below 100%.

It's a good thing, and seems to show that the CD mastering engineer knew what the heck they were doing.

 

Here are three shadowplay .wav forms. They are in this order:
Qwest (9 25840-2) EAC: 87.2%
Heart and Soul (2008): EAC: 96.5%
2008 Remaster: EAC: 100%

 

- thanks - you learn something new everyday !

 

Hi, I want to buy the original, unremastered versions of Joy Division's Closer and Unknown Pleasures. There are versions available at Amazon, both dated 2008. However, they are the single disc albums, they are imports, and they are on the London Imports label.

Are these remastered or the original versions?

 

If you want the best sound quality, then you'll want the Japan 25CY issues for UP and Closer. These were pressed by Denon in 1988. They come up on the forum or eBay now and again. I'd say $25 or so each without OBI.

The mastering is very, very good. I was ecstatic!

 

Those are very rare and hard to find, esp for $25!

IMHO, the original Factory cds are just as good <to my ears, anyway>, and although not too easy to find in good shape for under $30 or so, still easier than trying to find those early Japan cd pressings.

 

I've found that as my system has improved (gear, speaker positioning (thank you bdiament), acoustic treatment, etc) that instruments and vocals became palpably real and totally separated from the speakers (they disappear), especially on the best masterings. It becomes so easy to hear every detail as a system becomes more and more quiet and transparent. The 25CY are demo worthy- not quite strict audiophile quality, but very, very good. I'd like to think that any JD fan would find it worthwhile to seek them out. PM for WAV samples.

Of course, any JD fan will want to have the UK FACD discs also. I'm confident that the 25CY Factory discs pressed by Denon will become the "go to" version.