Joy Division - Unknown Pleasures 40th Anniversary Limited Edition

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by bettsaj, May 8, 2019.

  1. bettsaj

    bettsaj “I'm in competition with myself and I'm losing.” Thread Starter

    Here are the labels as found on the various pressings

    2007 Rhino
    [​IMG]


    2015
    [​IMG]
     
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  2. Music Geek

    Music Geek Forum Resident

    Location:
    England
    The white cover is horrible. Why do they need to fiddle with an iconic piece of art to sell a few more copies of the same thing again and again?...
    (Note: it's a rhetorical question)
     
  3. lennonfan1

    lennonfan1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    baltimore maryland
    ordered.
    Something tells me it's gonna be good.
    I'd prefer a new remaster but the last one isn't bad IMO.
    12 inch 45 would be ideal in some ways, but truly, I just care about it sounding decent as its more an experimental than audiophile recording and its overarching message is what's important. I wonder what Ian would think of audiophile nitpicking over his work. lol
     
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  4. bettsaj

    bettsaj “I'm in competition with myself and I'm losing.” Thread Starter


    I tend to agree with you, it's a bit like enjoying high quality dark chocolate for years and years, then someone giving you a Milky Bar.... Meh!

    I still vote for a 2 x 45rpm MoFi release of both this album and Closer
     
  5. variablebitrate

    variablebitrate Well-Known Member

    Location:
    New York
    @bettsaj, thank you for such a detailed response! That was exactly the kind of info I was hoping for. Sounds like this new release is a safe bet, then.
     
  6. bettsaj

    bettsaj “I'm in competition with myself and I'm losing.” Thread Starter


    Looking at it again, in 2006 the CD's were mastered digitally likely AAD, but it looks like the vinyl presses were mastered slightly differently hence the label stating "Remastered from the original master tapes". The CD's had nothing like that. The vinyl sounds much better than the CD's so i'm not really sure what differences there are between the CD and LP mastering. What I do know is the remaster of Closer for example sounds virtually the same as my first pressing, however the first pressing does have more depth to it.

    The 2015 represses are from the 2007 vinyl masters, however they're pressed from different metalwork due to the lack of dead wax etchings. There is a difference between the 2015 and 2007 Rhino release..... I just can't put my finger on it. Bottom line is Frank Arkwright remastered the entire Joy Division back catalogue in 2015 according to his discography on the Abbey Road website... There in lies another quandary, if Frank Arkwright remastered them in 2015, why do they have a sticker on them saying cut from the 2007 masters?? According to his CV on the Abbey Road website he also remastered them in 2007!

    I think there's been 2 masterings done on these records, once in 2007 and once in 2015. That ties in with Franks discography on the website. I think the labelling in incorrect on the 2015 remasters, and that also supports why there's different dead wax etchings between the 2007 and 2015 releases. Also they have different bar code numbers which are also on the dead wax.
     
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  7. jeffmo789

    jeffmo789 Give The Gift of Music!

    Location:
    New England
    Typically Shambolic!

    If I didn't know better I would think Gretton, Wilson and Factory were involved. :cool:
     
  8. bettsaj

    bettsaj “I'm in competition with myself and I'm losing.” Thread Starter

    I have an update somewhat regarding the mastering of the 2007 pressings, and the 2015 pressings......
    I have just received a brand new copy of the 2015 pressing of the Substance double album, and the dead wax says quite explicitly "FA Abbey Road" signifying Frank Arkwright and that the mastering was done at Abbey road.

    My 2007 Rhino copy with the original dead wax etchings as the originals doesn't have any mention of FA or Abbey Road. Therefore these were mastered by someone else, not frank. I think in 2007 there were 2 masterings done, one in the US and one in the UK. Frank did the UK remasters, whilst a different mastering engineer (at this point unknown) remastered them in the US. This is confusing the **** out of me..... The attention to detail on the US remasters is so much better than the UK remasters (sorry Frank).

    Why can't we just have one definitive AAA remaster of both Unknown Pleasures and Closer, and be done with it.
     
  9. rnranimal

    rnranimal Forum Resident

    Location:
    Ohio
    That white cover is absolutely atrocious. I can't imagine what possessed them to do that.
     
  10. bettsaj

    bettsaj “I'm in competition with myself and I'm losing.” Thread Starter


    I'm in agreement regarding the cover.... Even so, I have pre-ordered a copy to add to the collection working on the assumption that hardly anyone will buy it because it's so ugly, so it'll be a rarity in the future and be worth 1000's................................... Then again, maybe not ;)


    Thinking of the above, as the new red vinyl anniversary edition is going to be pressed using the 2007 masters..... what ones?.... The US or the UK remasters? If the dead wax doesn't have any etchings like the first pressing it's likely to be the UK masters.
     
  11. m300

    m300 Forum Resident

    Location:
    MCR
    Bowdon Vale Youth Club
     
  12. lennonfan1

    lennonfan1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    baltimore maryland
    ..but how do you know it will be the 2007 masters? Frank did the New Order releases just out as well, I also have that new 2 lp JD Substance and I think it's great.
     
  13. bettsaj

    bettsaj “I'm in competition with myself and I'm losing.” Thread Starter


    As I said earlier... It needs clarification, but Amazon are stating that it is using the 2007 remasters. Check the track listing on the web page

    Now, either Amazon are jumping the gun, or they have had it on authority to advertise it as such.. I'm going with the latter and they're just going to use the 2007 remasters. I've just noticed that Amazon are also saying it's the Rhino remaster, which suggests to me it'll be the US remaster... I hope it is.
     
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  14. lennonfan1

    lennonfan1 Forum Resident

    Location:
    baltimore maryland
    If FA did the JD and NO stuff at Abbey Road, it would stand to reason the newer one is used as they did on the first 4 NO singles and Movement, as well as the new Substance.

    Singles on cd got complaints until the remaster from 2015 released 2016. Frank also did Total vinyl.
     
  15. bettsaj

    bettsaj “I'm in competition with myself and I'm losing.” Thread Starter

    I agree with you.... But there's some confusion as to who exactly mastered the 2007 records, as there were clearly 2 remasters done. One in the US, and one in the UK. FA did the UK pressing, and the 2015 remasters were from the 2007 remasters. Who remastered the US 2007 records, 'cos it wasn't Frank
     
  16. BlueSpeedway

    BlueSpeedway overground | underground

    Location:
    London, England
    Agree with your first point, but the second point...they would more than likely cost more than good condition originals with their perfect sound and sublime Side 1 / Side 2 track sequences.

    Even with the vinyl trend decent originals can be had for under £30 if you hang on and or shop around: as recently as 3 years ago you'd see good originals for £15 down to even £10 each in London as both albums aren't rare: they were huge sellers at the time across all of Western Europe :)
     
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  17. Willowman

    Willowman Forum Resident

    Location:
    London, UK
    Exactly. They’re not long records. Don’t screw with sequence.
     
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  18. bettsaj

    bettsaj “I'm in competition with myself and I'm losing.” Thread Starter


    I've yet to see a N/M copy of UP going for less than £200.... There was a MINT copy on Discogs going for around £600 the other week
     
  19. BlueSpeedway

    BlueSpeedway overground | underground

    Location:
    London, England
    Well that's a long way from what I see and have seen in the (expensive) remaining used stores in London or at record fairs. I got a virtually mint Closer 3 years ago for £6. The sleeve was discolored but the record was perfect and better than the one I already had. If it had a better cover it would have been £25 tops three years ago, so worth maybe £100 now? Around the same time I got a German original UP in top condition for £10, to see how it compared to my UK.

    A similarly valued and era album, Hex Enduction Hour by The Fall.. I bought an absolute total mint, original for £18 four years ago, that would be worth about £100 now too from what I've seen. If anybody's paid £209 - £600 for Closer, UP or Hex, they're mad IMO :) :(
     
  20. bettsaj

    bettsaj “I'm in competition with myself and I'm losing.” Thread Starter


    I recently paid £60 for a mint unplayed closer..... Which looks to be the going rate. It wasn't trans red, but definitely a first press. Unknown Pleasures first pressings in N/M or mint are going for stupid money now, especially a trans red copy.
     
  21. Kassonica

    Kassonica Forum Resident

    I'm happy with both my 1st Press U.P and Closer... No need for for reissues :)
     
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  22. Willowman

    Willowman Forum Resident

    Location:
    London, UK
    It’s the anniversary of Ian’s death today.
     
  23. BlueSpeedway

    BlueSpeedway overground | underground

    Location:
    London, England
    Must admit I've never checked my UP against the light to see if it's that redish version! Must do it some day but I listen to DVDRs I made these days as most of my records are sold or stored elsewhere.

    One good thing about UP is it's easy to fix one with a beat up sleeve using a black pen, so bargain hunters can maybe seek out a good record beat sleeve copy. Whereas discolored and tatty Closer sleeves are impossible to fix!
     
  24. Music Geek

    Music Geek Forum Resident

    Location:
    England
    ... and it will be 40 years next year, which is a very very long time.... but what he managed to do in just a couple of years has stood the test of time wonderfully.
     
  25. Willowman

    Willowman Forum Resident

    Location:
    London, UK
    Closer first press isn’t translucent. Or, at least, mine isn’t.

    There is a whole stack of misinformation floating around about these records!
     
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