I bolted the new Apheta 2 I bought with the amp into my tone arm yesterday afternoon and needed to test it out before I returned the old cartridge to my vendor for a rebate. I usually listen to a lot of acoustic jazz lately but today was in the mood for some rock so I pulled out Led Zeppelin's Houses of the Holy and the self titled Bad Company album. I couldn't believe the clarity on these records, from as low as the bass could go all the way up to the highest cymbal crashes the R3s with the Mac and my turntable, cartridge and preamp combination was just beyond any component combination I've had in the house. The R3s are really something for what they cost and I shouldn't have worried about how they would match up with my chosen amplification. I felt like I was back in the 70s again hearing these albums for the first time.
Just echoing MDS' thoughts here. The Reference 1's look much nicer without the grills IMO. Your mileage may of course vary. I will be sending in my Cronus Magnum II's soon to upgrade to the III's so looking forward to the supposed improvements that it offers for record listening through the Ref 1's.
I just returned this afternoon from listening to both the KEF R3 and Reference 1 speakers. They were hooked up to a Rogue amplifier and preamplifier, not sure which models though I believe the amplifier was solid state and the preamplifier was tubed. Both speakers used the same speaker cable which we switched between the two so there was some lag between listenings. Both speakers were on the exact same style and height speaker stands. The room was large but not overly large, both speakers played nice in the room. Speakers were floated about halfway into the room and the seating position was a quarter of the room in from the rear wall. Lots of side space and the distance between the speakers and to the listening position was almost equal, listening being a little more distance. The music I listened to was Patrica Barber, "Cafe Blue". A very well recorded album with great sound stage. First I listened to the Reference 1 speakers. Sounded incredible, the sound stage was deep and just a tad wider than the speakers but not going through the side walls. Crystal clear, great detail, air, pin pointing of the musicians. The piano spread the distance between the speakers. Nice rich and full sound but with plenty of air and nothing exaggerated. Bass was nicely defined and with punch. I own these speakers so I may be a little biased toward how good they sound. Not to everyone's taste I am sure, but if you want a 3-way stand mounted speaker with a very flat, uncolored, and detailed sound with great spatial clues then this should be one of the auditioned speakers. Then I switched to the R3s. They sounded really good, however you immediately heard a difference in the two speakers. You did not have to listen hard to hear a difference they were different in their over all sound. The R3 had a very nice sound stage, about as big and placed similar to the Reference 1s however they did not have as much air or seem as clearly delineated in space and was missing some of the heft. This is not to say the R3s were a slouch in these areas but they just were not as razor sharp in those areas. Just a little bit of fuzz and a little less full sounding. One would expect this though. In those all those areas the sound was still well balanced and there was nothing that stood out as bad, just not up to the Reference 1 standard. If you were not comparing the two I doubt you would complain about the sound, you would probably rave about it, particularly for the entry cost, but when comparing back to back it was easy to hear. The really stricking difference was the R3 was no where as strong in its sound character. The Reference 1 has strength behind the sound and, much more heft in mid-range and bass without making the upper end sound weak. That I believe is what one will hear immediately, the other issues you need to listen for and compare the two. Part of the difference was in the drivers used. You could tell by the slight diameter variance that they were not identical. The Reference 1's driver at the sloped rim was just a tap larger. Very small difference but it was there. The second and one of the more obvious differences was the size of the box. The reference 1 box is taller and deeper. It might be ever so slightly wider also but I am just guessing there but the other two dimensions there is a noticeable difference in size. This I believe is one reason for the heftier / strong sound. It just sounded fuller. Again the R3 sounded amazing and if that is were your budget lies then you bought a great speaker that will give years of happiness, but if the funds arise and you still like the KEF sound then the Reference 1 will be a noticeable upgrade path in my opinion. Probably like going from the LS50 to the R3 and it should be based on the price difference which gives you a more ridged and large box, better drivers and crossovers. The R3s are a great buy the Reference 1 is not, but you either pay the price or look for a demo pair or used. This is not to say that the Reference 1s are overpriced, not if you compare to other speakers of their quality, but just that they are expensive and KEF is not giving out bargains for their "Reference" line. Hope this helps and doesn't disappoint, because those R3s do sound amazing.
Thanks for sharing your experience @mds. It sounds like what one would expect considering the price difference. Nice description.
Thanks @mds for the comparison. I agree with your assertion that the R3 is an upgrade from the LS50 as I have both side by side. I‘ll be looking for a dealer to audition the R1’s.
I think you will be impressed with the Reference 1, if you get a chance to audition it. At this price point you have some really 1st class speakers to choose from, really highend stand mounts. What is a stand out point with this speaker besides it's sound is that it is a true three-way and most stand mounts are two-ways and that really creates a very full sound for a stand mount speaker. Harbeth makes a really good three-way stand mount and I almost bought that but felt the Reference 1 in my system / room was noticably better. Their sound is very different. Being a three-way also makes it work really well in a variety of room sizes. Once you move up to this category of speaker it is even more important to have your other components as close to or equal to the speaker level of quality or areas needing improvement will be telegraphed. They really can be your end game speaker.
Having lived with the Reference 1 for over a year now, I continue to be amazed at what they can do. The soundstage and imaging are phenomenal, and the level of detail they present while still staying relaxed and non-fatiguing is even better.
Echoing other thoughts here-great writeup between the two @mds . Based on your description, I'd be curious to hear my setup with a Rogue SS by comparison. Haven't yet sent off my Cronus Magnum II to upgrade to the III, but not even sure I need to (it's a decent chunk of change for the upgrade). I'm drinking coffee while listening to the Ref 1's myself this morning. Hard to complain!
The speaker grills finally arrived and we drove out to Framingham yesterday in snow, sleet and rain to get them. I like the aesthetic, they're sleek and understated so I think I'll try them for a while and see if I miss looking at the bare drivers.
I like the timing of your post here. My R3s were called back in to duty just last night after a couple weeks in the closet. Coincidentally, I mounted the grills to see what effect they had on the sound. Only listened for 45 minutes so still judging. Sound? Not sure yet. Looks? I think I prefer the look with grills on. To be honest though, I'm not positive these guys are broke in yet, as I have less than 100 hours on them.
I only listened for a few minutes this morning with the grills and had to go. I' ll finish listening to the Ben Webster/Oscar Peterson record I started and let you know if I think there's any affect on the sound.
I got my R700 back in February and they changed noticeably just recently, I want to say late October or early November. I know it's a different creature, but, as they say, they have the same mother and whatnot.
I've listened to a number of records over the last few days and honestly I can't detect anything detrimental with regard to the sound with the grills on. I think they're about as transparent as they can be and they look good so I think they'll stay for a while.
Hi all, new guy here. I'm about to inherit a pair of Reference 1 and I'm curious your thoughts on my setup. Currently have a pair of 20-year old Sonus Faber Concerto floor standers, powered by a Rega Elicit-R. I'm hoping I'll notice a big enhancement in overall sound quality with the new KEFs, but is my Elicit-R going to be enough? I'll certainly consider selling the Elicit-R for something more powerful if necessary (and I'll probably check back in here for advice if I do!). I may also be inheriting a subwoofer (not sure what it is exactly), but I'm hoping I won't need the bother with it (I hate the thought of having to go through the process of integrating a sub).
You should have no issues running the REF1s with the Elicit. At the least I would certainly experiment with them as combo before worrying about something different to drive them.
Remember when setting up the Reference 1s they should not be toed in, where the SF probably did need to be, not so with the KEFs.
Agree with @GoldprintAudio. I run mine with the Elicit-R and I love the combo. Tone and detail are killer. I only ran into problems one hot night when I had the dial at about 3 o'clock and the amp briefly went into protection. I don't normally listen loud, and usually volume knob at 10 or 11 o'clock is perfect in my room. At a rated 105 WPC there is enough juice to drive them fine. I will eventually get a more powerful amp for them, but I really am in no rush to change the magic I have right now. You will love them. Like @mds says, very little toe in is needed if any, and the further out into the room you can place them the better. Soundstage, imaging, detail, and tone are just incredible. They are a pretty big speaker. I have not felt the need for a sub.
Thanks @Echoes Myron and @GoldprintAudio and @mds ! Yep I read that about the toe-in, very different from my SF setup now! Unfortunately they'll be maybe a foot or two out from the wall, but not much more. I don't listen very loud now, so likely won't run into overheating issues. I'll report back once I'm set up!
@mds and @Echoes Myron , earlier in the thread you discussed the possibility of running the Reference 1s with a Primaluna Dialog Premium HP. My current system is LS50s driven by that exact amp. I have KT120s in the Primaluna, which per the specs gives me 85Wpc into 8Ω in ultra linear mode. My room size is 16' 4" x 12' 4" with 9' ceiling. I listen to mostly rock and pop through speakers (heavy metal through headphones as my wife won't abide it out loud!). Do you think the Reference 1s would work ok in my room with the Primaluna? Thanks!
Just in case folks have not noticed, the whole Ref line is now on sale, as KEF is bringing out new finish options for 2020. Thus the Rosewood and Walnut are on sale (while they have stock left).
I believe you will have enough power. I run my B&W 805s with the Primaluna HP (with the stock EL34s) and it can crank. Bass could have a little more slam, but I will accept this in exchange for the lush mids. I think the Refs are more power hungry than the B&W, but should work great in your room. They also have strong bass, being relatively large, 3-way speakers. Most certainly you should use the Primaluna's 4 ohm speaker taps. I run my Refs with solid state because 1) the system is on the third floor of our house and I wouldn't want to leave a tube amp on attended for long up there, and 2) they are such detail-oriented speakers that an accurate solid state amp plays to this strength. @mds says he gets great results with tubes though, and I think he knows what he's talking about. At 105WPC my current Elicit-R is the bare minimum I think you could get away with in solid state (still works great), but as you know those Primaluna transformers can really pack a punch. Should be no problem. Amazing speakers, let us know how it goes!
I believe any KEF dealer should be able to help you....we received the info a few days ago. REF 1's -- $2799.99 each (for the Rosewood/walnut 2019 version) Basically 30% off!
Why, why, why did I click on this thread? I love the R3s, but have been thinking about moving up to the Ref 1. Now I read this and have to seriously check myself. Black or white not marked down?
