Kenny Burrell "Blue Lights" fake stereo?

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by sberger, Jan 15, 2009.

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  1. sberger

    sberger Grumpy(but grateful) geezer Thread Starter

    So I just picked up a UA blue label copy of this from '73 'cause I wanted to hear the stereo version and didn't feel like paying $30 for the Classic . Well, I get it and it has the stereo cat# but on the back cover it has the infamous "Electronically Re-Recorded To Simulate Stereo":realmad: .

    Why would they need to do this if a true stereo master exists, which according to the Classic blurb for the lp does?

    Maybe Steve or Joe Harley can address this?

    Thanks.
     
  2. MikeyH

    MikeyH Stamper King

    Location:
    Berkeley, CA
    Are you sure it's fake stereo? (e.g. did you listen?)

    There's plenty of mislabelled records both ways, dating back to the 50's. Equally, there's no reason for the processed master not to be marked Stereo and used for your copy.
     
  3. sberger

    sberger Grumpy(but grateful) geezer Thread Starter

    I did listen and it sounded like typical Blue Note stereo. I know this sounds dumb, but how would I know if it was fake? And did Blue Note typically do fake stereo, because I never heard that they did?
     
  4. Joe Harley

    Joe Harley Forum Resident

    It's easy to tell the difference. Just listen to each channel separately. If one side sounds like a bright transistor radio and the other sounds dull as dirt, you have "re-channeled" stereo.

    If you have the normal real RVG stereo mix, you'll have something like this:

    Trumpet left channel....piano and bass middle...sax and drums right.

    As someone else mentioned there are lots of mismarked UA Blue Note jackets out there. I've had "Electronically Rechanneled Stereo" records that were true mono and had them be true stereo. You have to play them to find out.

    Avoid real rechanneled LPs like the plague. Worthless at best.

    Joe
     
  5. TOCJ-4091

    TOCJ-4091 New Member

    Location:
    Arlington, VA
    Is that what happened with Hank Mobley's 'The Flip'? That lp has that real bright 'tinny' sound.
     
  6. dh3rm3

    dh3rm3 Forum Resident

    Location:
    47west63rd
    As for Classic Records reissues, what version of Lou Donaldson Blues Walk would you advice me, the mono or stereo ?
    I made some research but I can't seem to find if the session was actually stereo, mono, or both. Is the mono a fold down ? Or the stereo a fake ?
    Any hint would be great !
     
  7. sberger

    sberger Grumpy(but grateful) geezer Thread Starter

    Since it was recorded in July 1958, there should be a dedicated mono and stereo. Can't help you with which sounds better.
     
  8. Another Side

    Another Side Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco
    Joe,

    At a record show over the weekend, I was surprised to find a Jackie McLean "Jackie's Bag" in fake stereo. This was BLP 4052.

    Were there many albums from this period that were put out only in mono although the stereo tape clearly existed? Or is it a case of a mismatched title?
     
  9. readingm

    readingm Forum Resident

    Location:
    Redwood City, CA
    Possible scenario? Late 50s Lp gets an initial mono only release because after all, nobody gonna pay a dollar extra for stereo, when they don't even have a "stereo" to play it on anyway. Couple years later the format takes off and a stereo release is needed. No one can be bothered to find the 2 or 3 track master though and someone figures "we'll just make stereo from this mono tape, no one will notice the difference."
     
  10. deanswift58

    deanswift58 New Member

    Location:
    Hong Kong
    AFAIK,

    All BN 4XXX series were avaliable as stereophonic LPs with "BST" as the prefix and "BLP" being mono LPs.

    All subsequent LIBERTY/EMI/CAPITOL reissues, digital or otherwise were in stereo.

    It might be a mislabeling or the mastering engineer in the 70s was too lazy to source the stereo master...

    if you see the funky "stereo" typeface on the record cover, then it's a 70s reissue...

    [​IMG]
     
  11. Another Side

    Another Side Forum Resident

    Location:
    San Francisco
    There was no mono tape for that release. That's what's puzzling. The mono LP's were made from the stereo tape L+R.
     
  12. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Mastering Engineer Your Host

    Only the Van Gelder cuts were made from the original tapes. All the recuts were made from various wacky dubs of one kind or another. Most operators had no idea that their "mono" reels were actually dubbed from stereo tapes with the channels combined. This stuff was not "sacred" like it is to us now. Just old stuff that needed fake stereo to make an extra buck. Little did they know that they had true stereo right there. Probably the stereo tapes were stored in a different place and no one ever bothered to check.


    Like Joe sez, some of the covers say "fake stereo" but the actual record is mono or in some case, true stereo. My rule of thumb: Unless you see RVG in the deadwax, forget it...
     
  13. Parkertown

    Parkertown The Art of Drumming

    I'd recommend the stereo mix. It's true stereo.

    Ummm, there is a 45rpm issue coming up soon... :angel:
     
  14. Joe Harley

    Joe Harley Forum Resident

    Indeed. And THAT is the one to own folks. It will be available on Acoustic Sounds.

    Joe
     
  15. Parkertown

    Parkertown The Art of Drumming

    Yeah, I'll probably have to have that new one on 45...the stereo mix is a lot of fun. I have the Classic 200g mono...and later regretted not getting their stereo issue instead...

    Now with the AP coming, I feel like I dodged a bullet! :)

    I don't always enjoy the "with conga" type of sessions, but this one is a winner. It really works on this date. :thumbsup:
     
  16. Parkertown

    Parkertown The Art of Drumming

    An aside:

    Looking back at this thread, I even got a little confused. I'm referring to Lou D's Blues Walk above in my posts here. I got confused when I looked at the thread title again...

    This thread should perhaps just be titled "Blue Note Fake Stereo 70'sreissues"?...since we're talking about other titles now...

    Okay: sorry...aside over...resume thread...
     
  17. Joe Harley

    Joe Harley Forum Resident

    No, what happened to Mobley's The Flip was simply that it wasn't originally recorded by Rudy Van Gelder. It was recorded in Paris in 1969 by an engineer named Jacques-Yves Barral.

    Blue Note mostly ran with Rudy during the hey-day but once in a while.....The Flip, Dizzy Reece's Blues In Trinity and Dexter's One Flight Up being prime examples, Alfred used masters recorded in Europe and released them here.

    Rudy did end up doing the original mastering for these however.
     
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