Kinks Deluxe CD Question

My Dave Davies Album That Never Was that I ordered on April 3rd finally arrived! I was in a Kinks krazw when I ordered that, but I'm not now. Wonderful timing. Will report back later.

 

Update on The Album That Never Was: very good sound quality. A little bass-shy, but these recordings are pretty much nothing but midrange anyway so that probably indicates it's close to a flat transfer. Less bright than other early CDs, and more solid mids without being overbearing. No major sound quality issues, except a little stutter near the beginning of "There Is No Life Without Love" (possibly on the tape) and toward the end of "Creeping Jean", the left channel gets louder for a while. I hadn't actually heard a few of these songs before - they're great! I heard echoes of "Strangers" in a lot of these, particularly "Hold My Hand" - I've always held "Strangers" in especially high regard so it's interesting to hear earlier songs that point toward it.

"Death Of A Clown" is less bright than on the PRT Something Else and it has significantly more midrange. There's some clarity lost that I miss, but it still sounds better. Why it's in stereo, I have no idea, considering it's mono on Hit Singles. On the flip side, I actually prefer the stereo mix of "Love Me 'Til The Sun Shines" - even though the handclaps in the stereo version are mixed louder than a jet engine, this mix is just really ugly. I guess it's fortunate that the mono mix is virtually impossible to get in good quality.

 

The deluxe editions should have been the only Kinks a fan need ever buy. It's such a shame the mastering is so bad. I used to defend them, before I heard the PRTs. I just assumed what I disliked was the rough quality of the recordings. I picked up two PRTs on a whim (Kinda Kinks was one of them, I think the other was Arthur) and I was totally blown away by how much I loved the sound!

I've still not heard the 1998 Kontroversy, but grab the PRT (or the '89 Castle CLACD) and you won't ever remember that it's not a good recording. It sounds quite lovely. In fact, I'm fairly certain I uploaded a YouTube video in this thread of one of its songs, although it may be gone now.

As for the deluxe Village Green you got rid of, it's not the best. It only has the best mastering of all the deluxe editions (which is not the same as "good mastering") and it has the best mastering of the mono mix (see previous parenthetical interjection). If you prefer the stereo mix and you have the CLACD, you've got the best version. You're only missing the bonus tracks.

 

Don't! It's absolute crap and if anything, that's an understatement. Incredibly shrill and tinny.

I gave away that Castle Village Green Cd when the 3CD version was released in 2004. Oh well...

 

It was either @Adam9 or @Laservampire who called it "the gold standard in bad mastering". Quite high praise considering how many terrible sounding CDs are out there.

 

A lot of people like the deluxe sets and other recent remasterings, but I find them very hard to listen to. They are excessively compressed with very unflattering EQ choices. The PRT CD’s have their flaws but at least they sound natural.

It's impressive how bad they managed to get an okay sounding album to sound.

 

Which is worse: the 1998 Kontroversy, or the WG Hit Singles?

(I think I already know the answer - the one that doesn't have weaponized treble...)

 

Not me but I agree with that statement!

 

I do remember it was Laservampire who went out of his way to track down the WG Hit Singles just to hear how bad it was and ended up with PTSD from it. Where the "gold standard" comment came from I can't remember, but considering how many terrible CDs are out there, that's quite an accomplishment. I am a bit curious to hear the '98, but I also don't want to live in a sea of regret, and it sounds like I have to pick one or the other.

 

It's the worst sounding official CD I've ever heard. I had an original UK LP at the same time as it and the PRT version on tape so I knew how the album should have sounded. The Something Else and Face To Face 1998 remasters are appalling too. It's a shame they're the most common CDs of these albums and the only way a lot of people will know them.

 

Looking forward to hear that Kinda Kinks CD! If I'm lucky it's in the mail today.

No, I still have the 2004 deluxe Village Green. It was the old 1989 Castle edition I got rid of. I see now that I expressed myself vaguely. Maybe I have to get that CD again!

 

Yes, you are absolutely right about this version of Kinda Kinks (PRT - CDMP8831). It actually sounds really good! I've never heard early mono Kinks sounding this good before. Some tracks didn't sound as great as others, but I guess that's just the way they are recorded. "Don't ever change" and "Something better beginning" are like drowned in echo.

 

Regarding the echo, that's just the way it was produced and mixed. But the remainder of your reaction mirrors mine when I first heard the PRT (mine was the WG, but apparently they're essentially identical). I was really shocked at how good it sounded, considering the production shortcomings.

You can get Kinks (stereo) Kinda Kinks, Kontroversy, Village Green (stereo), and Arthur (stereo) in great quality digitally. You can also get a great-sounding Lola if you're willing to put some effort into matching one source to another. Something Else in stereo is another case where you can get a mostly great version, but two songs are flawed and there isn't a particularly great method for fixing them.

There's no great-sounding Kinks, Village Green, or Arthur in mono, no great-sounding Face To Face in either mix, and no acceptable Something Else in mono (outside of four songs from PRT compilations).

 

Kontroversy seems to be a safe purchase then, as it's in mono anyway. Face to Face and Something Else are more troublesome! I've learnt here that the stereo channels are reversed on the PRT/Castle Communications releases. I have that 1989 Castle version of Percy, which I have always liked the sound of, but I had no idea that the channels were reversed! So I have to put the headphones the other way round when I listen to it. (The album is available in good quality on Tidal though...)

And what about those "remixes" of "Tin soldier man" and "Situation vacant"? Is there anywhere I can listen to them online? I have a copy of, what is said to be, a Japanese stereo mix of Something Else. I don't know if it includes the remixes or not, but I haven't heard any difference compared to other sources.

I don't know what is the common opinion here about Arthur and Lola vs Powerman in the same 1998 Castle reissue series. Personally I haven't had any issues with them, apart from some bonus tracks being flawed (like the one-channel "This man he weeps tonight"). They sound better than the earlier albums anyway. Then we have the Velvel remasters, starting with Muswell Hillbillies. They sound fine to me and some of them include great bonus tracks. I'm planning to get a few more of them as I don't own every album on CD.

 

The channels are reversed on the Castle Communications CDs except for Village Green Preservation Society. The channels are not reversed on the PRT CDs. I would not recommend any stereo CD or vinyl of Face To Face as it is a very flawed mix.

 

Yes, that stereo mix is very strange! It does sound like mono most of the tracks. Are they not true stereo mixes, but only "re-processed stereo" or whatever it is called?
I think it's strange that the first album was mixed in stereo, but not Kinda Kinks and Kontroversy.

 

I don't have any stereo Face To Face CD, but a friend sent me "Sunny Afternoon" from the 1989 CLACD (which is supposedly identical to the PRT), and it sounds really bad. The EQ is uglier than my face. If the rest of the disc sounds like that, then it needs to be avoided. And that's considered the best-sounding version of the stereo mix on CD!!

The best option for Face To Face is the 2000 mono CD from Victor Japan (VICP-60997). It's not great, but it's the best option. One or two pages back, I posted a link to a downloadable WAV file with a few short samples taken directly from the CD so you can listen to what it sounds like. The second-best option is the 2018 mono hi-res download, which is similar to that but has more bass (though IMO, too much bass).

The two remixes on Something Else were done to correct the phasing issue on the vocals (where they disappear if the song is folded to mono). Here is Matthew B.'s explanation of the remixes (note that I corrected a minor error in this pasted version):

The remixes don't sound horrible, and they do correct the phasing issue. The problem is that, on the best CD version (PRT Something Else), they're edited, rather clumsily.

The options for the original mix are the Reprise Something Else CD (full dynamic range, but a miserable tape source) or the 2018 hi-res remaster (from the original master tapes, but bass boosted and compressed). Or, grab the Victor Japan Something Else mini-LP CD (VICP-60998) and re-EQ it to have the unedited remixes.

 

Mostly mono but some wide and narrow stereo with some tracks having just a stereo reverb. The biggest flaws are the missing harmony vocals in "Rainy Day in June" and the electric rhythm guitar in "Little Miss Queen of Darkness" which obscures the much more interesting acoustic guitar lines.

 

Judging from this description, it was the Japanese Victor K2 mix I had on a CD. I know for sure it had the full-length versions of the songs. It was just a burnt CD copy someone sent to me, so I had no cover to it. That is the Something Else disc I have played the most. Unfortunately I can't find it now, but I think that I did throw it in the bin after having bought the Sanctuary deluxe... What a shame, because I liked that disc!

 

does anyone have recommendations for which CD versions to get of some later albums? Specifically: Sleepwalker, Low Budget, State of Confusion, and Word of Mouth

 

Original Arista CDs

 

I have the hybrid SACDs which I am happy with plus they have bonus tracks - Sleepwalker's are especially worthwhile. I think these are also available as regular CDs.

 

That's right. I've got the 1998 Velvel remaster. I think the sound is fine, although I have no other version to compare with. And as you say the bonus tracks are great!

The Kinks - Sleepwalker

Url: The Kinks – Sleepwalker (1998, CD)

Shared from the Discogs App

Regarding State Of Confusion and Word Of Mouth on the other hand, I recently got myself copies of those on CD and was not satisfied with the sound quality. They are the Velvel remasters with bonus tracks, released in 2010. Avoid! I bet the old versions sound better in this case.

 

"Susannah's Still Alive" is such an amazing song, but one of the worst recordings/mixes ever. I was going to ask why there's no bass except during the main riff, but buried behind the wash of treble, I can hear bass guitar during the bulk of the song. But trying to bring that out just makes the kick drum and the riff distort like crazy. I'm normally against remixes, but this is such a great song, it really needs one!

(Yes, I've been listening to The Album That Never Was again. Dave is no slouch as a songwriter, and this disc sounds really good!)

 

Speaking of The Album That Never Was, I've just now realized the riff from the intro of "Creepin' Jean" got repurposed for possibly my favorite Jam song, "Ghosts".

Man, anyone who doesn't have this CD should go buy it. It's a wonky stereo transfer, but the disc is mono (except "Death Of A Clown"), so solo up the left channel and let 'er rip. Just needs a few EQ tweaks: +3 dB to everything below 80 Hz, +1 or 2 dB to the 80-150 Hz range, -1 dB at 300 Hz, -2 dB at 800 Hz, -3 dB at 1k, -2 dB at 1.2k, +1 dB at 5k-9k, +1 or 2 dB to everything 10k and up (+2 dB may be too bright for some songs). This should pull the bass out of the midrange mud and make the vocals stand out nicely.