Indeed, and that is the experience I had. Following my last cycle on the Kirmuss, I transfer the album to my Nitty Gritty and do a rinse and vacuum of both sides, followed by a shot from my Milty anti static gun. Works well!
The water probably got too hot. They recommend letting the machine rest 10 minutes after 35 minutes of use. I've never cleaned that many records at one time.
I agree that the water is too hot causing the record to warp. I stop cleaning when the indicator light get to the second red light. For new records I only wash for 3 min then play them an see how they sound.
I did that over the course of 10 hours. It has always done that for me, whether it be the first minute of the first record, but they always bounce back to be perfectly flat. Weird.
I would diagnose that your temperature sensor is off. Try a thermometer in the bath. If they disagree by 10 degrees or more call Kirmuss.
Will do that next time for sure. Thanks. Like I said they always bounce back to lying perfectly flat so I never thought it was an issue but more part of the process.
I would like to emphasize that any fluid besides distilled water is optional, even the fluid that Kirmuss sells. Ultrasonic action with pure distilled water is sufficient to clean a record. Per the Kirmuss Training Video (links below), the tank fluid is only distilled water, no additive at all. Isopropyl alcohol from any local store is optional, and recommended only if the user will follow with a full drying of the record . And the Kirmuss surfactant is optional, sprayed and wiped evenly onto the record surface for more effective cleaning of used records. Personally, I trust the knowledge and research that has resulted in Kirmuss's fluid and procedure. So I do use his fluid, but ONLY for used records. But his procedure can be time consuming and labor intensive, because he recommends more than one cycle for used records, based on the appearance of the record after each cleaning, until it is finally fully clean. I understand that people would like to make it faster and easier, so they have experimented with no surfactant, and no additive to the distilled water bath. Results seem to be just fine. With the Kirmuss ultrasonic RCM, we have a choice of 3 ways to do it: 1) Use only distilled water, and either air dry or briefly hand dry. Ultrasonic cleaning is so effective, that neither alcohol, nor surfactant, nor a detergent has any further benefit, except that they make sure water adheres to the record surface during cleaning, also known as "wets the surface" rather than "beading up". Regular store-bought isopropyl alcohol also helps water to wet the surface, and is a solvent for some of the oils from fingerprints. It is also a solvent for some of the components in vinyl. So, it needs to be physically removed from the record surface immediately, either by thorough vacuum or hand drying. 2) Use an additive, either alcohol, a detergent, and/or a surfactant, and vacuum dry after the ultrasonic cleaning. Adding a surfactant is helpful, to better "wet" the record surface, such as has been used in all past record cleaning solutions. Photo-Flo was an excellent commercially available surfactant, used in RCM fluids, until Kodak discontinued making it. But Kirmuss's research claims vacuum drying damages vinyl. He claims there is a very high speed venturi effect in the grooves, which causes any particulates in the fluid and in the air to abrade the record grooves, causing high frequency degradation. If you don't believe this, then using ANY solution is fine, as long as you dry using a Nitty Gritty or VPI. Ultrasonic cleaning with water only PLUS vacuum drying is MUCH more effective than alcohol, a detergent, scrubbing and vacuum drying only. I would rather avoid venturi effect, in case Dr, Kirmuss is right. But if the "venturi effect" is not true, then this is a very easy and very good 2-step process. 3) Use distilled water with a little alcohol (per his video) for the cleaning solution, spray on his surfactant, and go thorough his procedure. If time and money are not a factor, then I found Dr. Kirmuss's explanations to support his method and provide the safest and most effective record cleaning alternative. I have tried all three, and they all do the job, to my ears. This video shows Dr. Kirmuss discussing his fluid and procedure: Below is a link to a later video, in which Dr. Kirmuss emphasizes adding a very small amount of isopropyl alcohol to the distilled water, to provide some of the function of the surfactant. He also discusses using his surfactant for only used records, because it leaves a very obvious residue if the record needs another cycle to be completely cleaned. If you want to commit yourself to ONLY one ultrasonic cleaning cycle per record, then I suggest that you add isopropyl alcohol to the cleaning bath distilled water, and don't bother with his surfactant at all, nor with the checking of the record whether it is or is not fully clean after its first bath. Again, I do use his surfactant, but only on used records that are obviously not clean. Kirmuss Audio, Charles Kirmuss, Ultrasonic Record Cleaner, RMAF 2018
I was pleased to see that Upscale Audio has a much better looking version. The black body they use is much nicer. Kirmuss Audio Ultrasonic Record Cleaner - Upscale Audio Edition
The unit and color is identical to the ones I have, but the aluminum frame has been anodized black, at how much more than my sale price? And, I ship for free. As of now, Upscale's price is $900 plus shipping; mine is $770 with free shipping. The Kirmuss RCM that I sell comes with the 2x12" / 1x10" / 1x7" slot top. I also have replacement 3x12" / 1x7" slot tops in stock, which I can sell as an accessory. I may have to adjust my discount on everything to stay in-line with my competition, so please PM me for a price quote, and whether you want both tops. For just one or the other top, my prices will be lower.
If I buy the new 3x12 / 1x7 top then I have this old one that I don't need sitting around doing nothing. Is it worth it to have one more slot at $350.00? I'm good with what I have it works just fine. Now if I could get one at half price ($150.00) with my top as trade in I would be all over that.
I still only clean one record a time in the Kirmuss. The slots seem just too close for the ultrasonic waves to be effective if I were to to two or three records at a time. I could be wrong here but I’ve seen discussion on this and I’m not yet convinced to do otherwise.
To follow what Shawn just said, It really is not practical to watch any more than two records at a time with the Kirmuss, and even then you must stagger them so that they don’t dry before you can vacuum them or dry them with a towel. The three disc version would be completely a waste because, even if the cleaning is still effective, you would never be able to dry them in time.
i just purchased one an i use it with the 30% iso alcohol and it is working fantastic, especially for the money. my best friend has the Klaudio and i would be hard pressed to spend the money on that ... i suppose the Klaudio is quieter in operation, it dries and has a smaller footprint ... i have to say my Kirmuss is a fantastic machine. no complaints and highly recommended.
I would exercise caution using isopropyl alcohol in an ultrasonic machine. The flash point of the vapors can be dangerous. I did some research at one point and conversed with a fellow on the 'Gon about this who had science and chemistry chops- trying to figure out a 'safe' proportion- his conclusion was simply to use a 'made for plastics' US cleaning solution, such as the concentrates you can buy from lab houses. A little of that goes a long way-- Not trying to 'scare' you- and I can't give you the figure I was trying to come up with as a threshold without going back to some stuff I posted a while ago elsewhere and trying to find the papers I based it on. You can do your own research and reach your own conclusions. FWIW, the addition of a surfactant/detergent will improve the effectiveness of ultrasonic -- the trick is getting it off the record when you are done, as you probably know.
I also agree with Shawn on getting the best results from cleaning one record at a time. I do this for most of my used/older records in my collection with good results. New records I will clean two at a time just to get all the junk off from the pressing factory. I've seen a pressing shop and I can tell ya its no cleanroom that's for sure. I agree that the three record wouldn't work (for me) for the same reason you stated. Now if they made a two record version that had one record on one side and the other where the 10" is I might buy one but not for $350.00......sorry. @Bill Hart - I have read quite a bit on this subject (cuz of your warnings) and I do agree with being careful with the IPA. The articles I have read, they always say never to use IPA, but they don't state if low level % is safe or not. What do you think?
I will not charge $350 for the 3x12" top. My price to SH.tv members, is $199, But that is only if a buyer wants both tops. And, please, do not be surprised that $350 suggested retail or my $199 price is expensive. Unfortunately, looking at the item, it has all the mechanism for turning the records as part of the assembly, so it is not "just" a top. For anyone who buys a new Kirmuss from me, and who wants the 3x12" but not the 2x12", the "In Trade" price for just the 3x12" will be only $129. All shipping is free, and I absorb any tax. So $770 for the RCM plus $199 for the 3x12" minus the trade-in for an unused 2x12" is $899 total. If you are "all over it" please contact me by PM.
I can confirm that the top is a well made, well engineered mechanism. Honestly it appears to be a far superior design to the rotation part of other much more expensive machines. Kirmuss is a very bright guy - not surprised at all that he cane up with a better mousetrap.
thanks Bill. i really appreciate your input. i will do some research on my end and see what i can find out.
I'm with you. I am quite happy with the original Kirmuss US. Kinda reminds me of when I used to chase after the fastest computer processor and overclock methods. I was always still one step behind, and out a lot of time and cash that I could have out to use more wisely. Cleaning 2 records at a time is fine for me and gives me time to get em dried and on the TT. Lately I've been going with the OKKI to vacuum dry after a distilled water wash and that seems to work for me. I did change the felts to insure I have clean ones. I suppose the hand dry with the cloth works too as I did that for a while, but feel better with the distilled rinse and vacuum. To each his own, but as stated the US cleaning is a great way to go whatever the method...and I do put some isopropyl in the tank and use the surfactant after an initial 6 - 8 minute US cycle as most of my records are of the used and well used variety... It would be interesting to see what the plastic cleaning solution could do instead of the alcohol. I wouldn't know what to get though.
Warren Jarrett said: ↑ ... my latest special Kirmuss prices, available only to members of the Steve Hoffman forum: --Kirmuss Record Cleaning Machine, $870, my discounted price to SH.tv members is $100 off and free shipping., $770... I have changed my prices, thinking about the customer choosing either the stock top only, with 2 12" record slots, or the accessory top only, with 3 12" slots: Kirmuss RCM - 2x12", 1x10", 1x7" slots - $769.00, free shipping. Kirmuss RCM - 3x12", 1x10", 1x7" slots - $899.00, free shipping.
When you guys use a rcm to vac after the Kirmuss do you dry one side of the album and put that dry side on the rcm platter, vacumm it and then vac the side you towel dried. I have an okki nokki. One question. Do the owners of rcm's feel the Kirmuss does a better job at cleaning?
Way better than my vintage Record Doctor (from Audio Advisor, made by Nitty Gritty). I’ll give you one recent example-I have a reissue of Nirvana’s Nevermind mastered by Bernie Grundman that always sounded good, but marred by quite a few pops and tics. A couple of cycles in the Kirmuss, and there are almost none. My only complaint is that record cleaning is taking up a fair bit of weekends now.
