It is a programmed cycle but you have your choice of five different cycle lengths by holding in the button until you hear 1-5 beeps. Yes and no; laundry detergents recommend cold or warm temps now, never hot (nor do labels) and no washer offers a warm or hot rinse cycle anymore.
Fremer's review is in the new Stereophile. BTW, I ordered one directly at AXPONA. It's still not yet arrived.
Fremer’s article on the Kirmuss and the conclusions he draws are pretty much in line with what many are saying here. It’s a good read. In a nutshell he says that the Kirmuss system, quirks and all, really works well, but that it is a significant time investment to do it the right way. He notes that the system resurrected a couple of his old albums. He also mentions that using it half-cocked (my words not his) is not good because the system will loosen the pasty white residue, which then must be properly cleaned off before playing the record. If you don’t, you risk your stylus getting gunned up with the paste. He mentions that he had to send an Ortofon back for cleaning because he couldn’t get the white paste off. The moral of the story is do it right or don’t do it at all. Fremer implies that regular cleaning methods (RCMS) are more practical for everyday use. I agree with most of his conclusions, except that I think he should have experimented with a hybrid mixed method of wet clean/brushing/RCM vacuum and Kirmuss. I find that this gives the best mix of tine, effort and results. YMMV!
I watched the video of Kirmuss demonstrating the machine at Fremer's house. It seems very labour intensive doing the 3 cleans on a record, doing the paste thing 3 times. You would be around 25 minutes per album with the circle rotation polishing and the 3 cycles through the machine
i think this is true of everything these days. generally ... i say generally ... not EvEryONE ... but generally people have a tendency to want things done instantaneous and don’t understand what it takes or even means to do things right. i put at least 85% blame on the facebook dude but that is a different thread anyway, the Kirmuss System is one of the better systems I have used. yes, it takes time. yes, it is a pain in the ass. but then, these are my records and i don’t go a single day without listening to them.
I don’t even use the Kirmuss cleaning solution any longer. I presoak my albums with the Audio Intelligent 15 cleaning fluid or L’Art Du Son, working the solution into the record using the goat hair brush. I’ll let the fluid sit on the LP for a short time and then it goes into the Kirmuss cleaner for a 7-10 minutes cleaning cycle. Older and dirtier LPs will get the full 15 minutes treatment. Sometimes, I’ll repeat the process. Afterwards, I’ll lightly dry the LP using the cloth and then will drop (for lack of a better word) into the KLAudio for a final rinse and dry. The repeated cleanings due to the white paste can get tedious. I say use a good cleaning solution in the beginning and then blast the damn LP a few times and be done with it! It’s working for me. YMMV.
The paste thing reminds me of those ‘hard water’ demonstrations that sales people do with your water to get you to buy their water softener. I’m fine with process, but, seriously, there is just not that much waste on an LP. Maybe teeny amounts of dirt stimulate the paste to froth up? Through the process, you see less and less goo, and people say it sounds good, so I am not being a naysayer, just intrigued.
I believe the 'white paste' that takes any number of cleaning cycles in the Kirmuss routine to finally clear out, is the same stuff that constitutes the irregular, cloudy grey appearance on my records seen at certain angles under a close direct light on the record as it spins on my VPI 17f wet scrub/vacuum machine (using Disc Doctor cleaning fluid and brush for the scrub, then distilled water rinse) after the final distilled water rinse. But that cloudy appearance is apparent for only the first six to seven turns on the VPI as it vacuums the rinse off. After about those six to seven turns, you can actually see the cloudy appearance dramatically dissipate in the next two to three turns, leaving the record almost totally black and shining, without the cloudy appearance after those final spins -- which indicates (to me) the record is similarly clean to the Kirmuss routine without any of the 'white paste' remaining. Of course those extra spins that finally dry and remove the 'paste' really produce static, but in my case after this routine I follow with a cycle in my KLAudio ultrasonic cleaner which ends with a completely static-free record, ready to play or carefully store away.
I thought Fremer did a great job in his review in Stereophile (which is still behind a paywall right now, but presumably will be made openly available by Stereophile to readers at some point). He takes Kirmuss to task for some of the huckster stuff, but at the end, concludes that his method works extremely well. I gather this is the result of the surfactant-- something that can readily obtained--and the repeated treatment, polishing, etc. I'd be willing to experiment with this approach once my KL craps out and I buy an Elma, which is agnostic to cleaning solutions. I'm still wary of any treatment or chemical that remains on the LP--but if users are not experiencing kludged styli or other artifacts from that, perhaps it's a non-issue. I've never found mold or fungus to be an issue with records simply because I avoid any such contaminated records and dispose of them immediately. (I had a box of records that got wet in a flood years ago and did not try to remediate them-- thankfully, nothing too rare or valuable). Bottom line remains the same for me- good low priced entrant into US field, hype and misinformation aside.
I have been considering a Kirmuss but as an engineer I am skeptical as the origin of the "white paste" and suspect it has something to do with the cleaning fluid supplied with the Kirmuss. I find it odd that no other record cleaning process/ RCM/ US machine or fluid has resulted in similar "white paste" that required repeated cleanings to remove. I have hard time buying the Kirmuss explanation that this is old "soap" begin lifted from the grooves and feel he is just spinning a tale to try to explain the residue. I might invest in a Kirmuss or similar more cost effective US cleaning machine at some point but a 15-20 minute labor intensive cleaning process he is pitching seems too much to me. Does it really do a better job than the faster RCM or other brand US cleaners do?
I I have the Kirmuss and have seen the "toothpaste" twice. It seems the records were cleaned with some type of oil. I am not sure how the substance got on the record, but it was there. I buy a lot of used records and an acquaintance told me that some record dealers will polish a record with furniture polish or other lubricants to make the record look clean and minimize pops. I can't speak for the authenticity of this claim. Nevertheless,I have noticed the spray helps with the deep cleaning. albeit rather expensive. I used the Kirmuss yesterday and I cleaned twenty records over two days. Not every record needed triple cleans. Most were noticeably better sounding after one clean.
I am not disputing if his cleaning system and fluid work. I am just curious as to why his system is the only one I have ever heard or read about that creates the white "toothpaste". I am thinking it must have something to do with his cleaning fluid reacting with something on the LP being cleaned. I also wonder if his system, which can require multiple cleanings and time to get rid of the "toothpaste" does a better job then other RCM's or US cleaners which do not require the labor intensive regiment. I like the lower cost of the Kirmuss but not sure I want to spend 20 minutes cleaning an LP to get rid of the "tootpaste" as the majority of my 1000+ collection is my old vinyl from the 70's and used vinyl.
I could see some used record dealers doing this to get higher prices out of their used records. Most of their customer's most likely would never know any better.
Good point, because I never heard of the"toothpaste" until I used the Kirmuss. Whether its snake oil or not needs further investigation. Do other machines have their own solution? Is it possible to juxtapose the Kirmuss with another machine and determine if the solution is necessary? What might help is knowing what is in the Kirmuss magic potion which would help us understand what the cleaner is targeting. I have a suspicion the potion removes grease because finger prints don't always disappear with one cleaning without the solution. In addition, if I forget to use the solution and clean the record, upon the next play the needle is loaded with some white matter. It feels like grease when I remove it from the needle. In sum, after working in nite-clubs for almost two decades, many of my records are soiled from smoke, handling and dust. The Kirmuss has rejuvenated most of the vinyl. However, abrasions suffered from spindle drops and carelessness are more noticeable because the foreign matter that masked the damage is gone.
After about a year's use and countless records cleaned here's my final assessment of the Kirmuss: White paste aside and white lab coat aside this cleaner absolutely works as long as you clean 1 record at a time.
I have a friend that used pledge to clean his records as well, so it is likely that is a true story. He hasn't been listening to vinyl for decades so it must be an old school treatment.
I read Fremer’s review of the Kirmuss machine in Stereophile. It was thorough and fair. I like the fact that he called Kirmuss out on some of his bull***t claims.
So, I too am a new owner of a Kirmuss. I've used it for four records so far. Unfortunately, I was pulled away by my kids. Here are my initial thoughts after using an Okki Nokki with Art du Son (distilled water rinsing) for years. Incidentally, I felt the Okki Nokki was an excellent vacuum system, but was curious about trying an affordable ultrasonic deep cleaning. 1) The Kirmuss method is FAR FAR too labor intensive for me. I did this for two extremely noisy LPs. One was Newvelle release, the other was a Verve repress. The process works well, but it took almost 30 minutes per LP! Maybe it's worth it for the right record here or there. No way for every record. I'm also not sold on this polishing process and using the surfactant; I don't think I'll do this anymore. The NewVelle pressing remains lousy, it's a shame at the price and quality of the music that Masterdisk released these. The Verve quieted substantially and sounds great (quiet and more detail). 2) Jeff's Trial Method 1. I simply used the max distilled water with 40 ml of 70% isopropyl alcohol, ran two five minutes cycles each, and dryed them through the Okki Nokki with distilled water. The LPs were a Speaker's Corner and Classic 200 gram both mint but the vinyl was noisy. Worked great! The Lps were cleaned and are quiet. I'll probably follow this process for new releases moving forward. I'll think more on a process for used LPs, watch the Thread, and tinker. I don't know what to make of this whole toothpaste looking stuff; I'd rather avoid generating this and gumming up my Kandid Cartridge. BTW, the product itself seem well built and I'm happy with it. I purchased it from Warren Jarrett here on SH. He's a reseller and a good guy. Jeff
