KISS: The Songs 1974-2012

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by GodShifter, Feb 7, 2017.

  1. deeluxdx7

    deeluxdx7 Forum Resident

    Definitely.

    I know he's a "salesman" at heart....But Goddamn, I'd be lying if I didn't say he's one likeable M.F'er.

    I've been meeting him with YEARS in between since I was young. His personality and attitude towards me have never changed.

    He always starts by busting balls (To see if you take yourself too seriously, or have a weak ego, if you do, God help you.) But as soon as he knows you can laugh at yourself.....Well....let's just say the guy LOVES to talk!

    I guess the thing I apreciate about him, is that he'll talk your ear off about whatever, but when he's done he'll say "Ok, so what do YOU think?" And then he LISTENS to you like you're the only person in the world.

    I think it's why the guy is a great salesman. Good lesson to learn. If someone is worth talking to, then show that person you respect them and the time they spent interacting with you.
     
  2. ejluther

    ejluther Forum Resident

    Location:
    Carmel, NY
    Great post! As much as I like both Eric Carr and Eric Singer, Peter is my favorite KISS drummer for those "Razzmatazz" reasons...
     
  3. Analogmoon

    Analogmoon All the Way Back in the Seventies

    I have went to either end with thinking Peter is great to thinking he a terrible drummer. I guess it is sort along the lines of what is written about him in the KISS: Behind The Masks book. I have to say I was into the recent A&E documentary until they started on about Ace and Peter. I guess that makes for good ratings though. I mean - we have heard that stuff a million times - but I guess the public has not.
     
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  4. Vinyl Fan 1973

    Vinyl Fan 1973 "They're like soup, they're like....nothing bad"

    Let’s go back to the beginning when 4 guys off the streets of New York rehearsed in their loft, and came up with the goods. This rehearsal definitely has the energy heard on the 1st demo, it’s a shame that energy did not materialize or get captured for the debut album. Ace is on fire so is Peter. Pete’s drumming doesn’t get enough credit.

     
  5. Vinyl Fan 1973

    Vinyl Fan 1973 "They're like soup, they're like....nothing bad"

    People talk about how the Alive! tapes were fixed, and I’m sure they were, but the band did sound like that raw off the floor. Just listen to Boston 1975, goosebumps, the band is on fire and sounds like Alive!

     
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  6. deeluxdx7

    deeluxdx7 Forum Resident

    Yeah, totally agree.

    Peter is just a unique player. He catches a lot of flack for....well.....I call it the "Bonham effect"

    Rock drummers who don't try and play like Bonham generally are called "Bad".......For the record, I don't like Led Zeppelin, never have. Not a Bonham fan either. That's fine if other people are, and I know they are one of the most popular bands ever. And I'm not saying they "Suck" they just aren't for me. That's all.

    But three drummers, with a direct lineage have suffered from this "Bonham effect"

    Ringo Starr, Peter Criss, Steven Adler.

    Each one is from one of the biggest Rock bands ever. Each one is considered "bad"

    Each one played incredibly tasty and musical drum parts that when "solo'ed" reflect a remarkable amount of "Hooky-ness" in their own right.

    Each one was ESSENTIAL for their band to actually sound like their band. (Yes, I know Ringo was never replaced, but I doubt it would have gone well if he had been.)

    None of them were into the "Brick-layer", "Heavy machinery" drummer thing.

    None of the three can get any respect to save their lives,

    And their is a direct lineage. Peter says Ringo is one of his main heroes, Steven says Peter and Ringo are his main influences.

    The Rodney Dangerfield's of Rock.
     
  7. healter skealter

    healter skealter Mullered

    Location:
    Penny Lane
    Peter Criss should never, ever be mentioned in the same context as Bonham. Any drummer would have sufficed for KISS, as all the post-Criss albums have proved.

    The band became irrelevant & unrecognisable after ACE left. If anything, Peter's departure improved the band, albeit only marginally.
     
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  8. Doomster

    Doomster Forum Resident

    Location:
    London

    My experience is limited to what I hear / read via the media. Decades of that does not readily lead one to a "likeable M'Fer" conclusion.

    So it is interesting to hear a positive in-person perspective about Simmons (I mean, his own son once described him as the "Donald Trump of rock'n'roll").
     
  9. Automatic Changer

    Automatic Changer Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Sydney
    Every now and then he drops his guard and lets out a delightful bit of self-awareness that's hard not to overlook. I thought Gene would be the weaker link long before Paul (in a live performing sense) and obviously very wrong on that score. He's pretty remarkable really.
     
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  10. Doomster

    Doomster Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    I am with this view for sure ... I am sure he was the least technical (and fully acknowledge Carr's monstrous drum sound on COTN). I cannot tell if its Peter Criss' actual drumming style I prefer, or if he simply coincided with the Kiss era I prefer (being their 70s rock era, rather than the 80s metal). In my head, Criss' drums do seem to have the most personality - that could be imagined.
     
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  11. Terrapin Station

    Terrapin Station Master Guns

    Location:
    NYC Man/Joy-Z City
    In my opinion they're a very different band musically without (1970s) Peter, too.

    Peter was a great drummer in the 70s, with a fairly unique style. The problem is that after the 70s, he seemed to more or less give up worrying about the drums. Not that he completely gave up playing (although maybe he did for stretches of time), but he certainly stopped developing as a drummer, and he seemed to lose a lot of what made him great and unique during the 70s. I don't know what caused it, exactly. Maybe he just lost interest because of all he had been through. Maybe substance abuse and mental health issues (as he talks about in his book) affected him. Maybe physical issues--he was in at least one bad car wreck, I know he's had carpal tunnel issues, etc.--got in the way. Maybe a combination of all of that stuff. I don't know. But it's a shame, because despite the way that his playing during the 70s has been "talked down" by various parties, including Paul and Gene etc. at times (with them it's important to remember that they're always thinking about marketing), he was a great player during that era, as one's ear's can attest to via the KISS recordings he's on, including live recordings (including bootlegs, etc.)

    As competent as he is, the drummer I'd say who doesn't make a lot of musical difference to the band is Eric Singer. Peter, Anton Fig and Eric Carr all had very unique styles. Singer is a very capable player, but he doesn't really have much personality that comes through.
     
  12. Matthew Tate

    Matthew Tate Forum Resident

    Location:
    Richmond, Virginia

    disagree and I think you missed the point. people try and copy the drum parts of the drummers named but they are all missing the feel. on top of that criss was maybe the best singer in the band
     
  13. Doomster

    Doomster Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    Agree with this: Criss probably was the best singer in the band (albeit not the defining one for the Kiss sound).

    Again, if mentioning Criss in the same breath as Bonham creates stomach ulcers, let me compare him to Charlie Watts (more ulcers!??). The comparison is that even if the playing that seems simple, it has feel and personality, and serves the songs nicely. Would the 'Stones be better if they had Keith Moon behind the kit? Not so sure.
     
  14. Matthew Tate

    Matthew Tate Forum Resident

    Location:
    Richmond, Virginia
    agree people copy peters parts just fine. it just seems to lack a certain feel
     
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  15. intv7

    intv7 Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston, MA, USA
    Who considers Ringo to be "bad"? He's one of the most respected drummers on the planet.
     
  16. Anthrax

    Anthrax Forum Resident

    Location:
    Europe
    Peter Criss sang fantastic, but in a band with Paul Stanley there's no maybe about who was the best singer.
     
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  17. Anthrax

    Anthrax Forum Resident

    Location:
    Europe
    And GN'R fans swear by Steven Adler. He was much missed on the Illusion albums and tours.

    Most of that post was nonsense.
     
  18. intv7

    intv7 Senior Member

    Location:
    Boston, MA, USA
    Yeah, I didn't wanna speak for how Adler was perceived as I've never been a Gn'R fan, but I've always thought his playing on that first album was really solid.

    It was Matt Sorum who I felt was soulless and unremarkable (but certainly not bad by any stretch).
     
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  19. antonkk

    antonkk Senior Member

    Location:
    moscow
    Peter brought magic and swing to KISS music. Prefer him to Bonzo by a mile. As much as I like Anton Fig albums and The Elder Peter Criss era is where everything was PERFECT.
     
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  20. deeluxdx7

    deeluxdx7 Forum Resident

    WAIT......Hold the phone here.....You say Peter is irrelevant?

    The SECOND he was gone is when KISS's popularity jumped off a cliff.

    Granted, I believe this was due to over exposure, and not understanding the popularity cycle of MASS-MARKETED entities,

    ....however, 90% of the music that is considered KISS's contribution to the "Classic Rock Cannon" features Peter on drums....actually some features Peter's songwriting, and , of course SINGING....he is best singer that has ever been in KISS.

    .....SIDE BAR!!! I've had a new GF over the last 6-8 ish months (Ok....not so new....whatever.)

    And what's the point in having a GF if you can't torture her with KISS, right?

    .....Anyway, I made the rookie listen to "Kissin' time." 3 times in a row." (She took it like a champ, no complaining......maybe this is the "one"??!!)

    ...I digress....I asked her "Who is the best singer? You hear three different voices, right? Who is the best?" (Yes, this really is the type of thing I do at home on my own time....wanna be friends??)

    She said "Ha!....Not even CLOSE! The LAST guy is WORLDS above the other two".......Take that for what it's worth....but most non-KISS "Fans" think Peter is BY FAR the best singer in the band.

    As far as saying the band nosedived when Ace left.......NOT TRUE! It was when PETER left!

    (I Love "Unmasked", "The Elder" and most of the new songs on "Killers"....so I'm not saying they started sucking when Peter left......but had Peter stayed they NEVER would have become the "Spinal Tap'ish" caricature they became. Peter scared the other members, he intimidated them. And Peter would NEVER have gone for the silly Vinny Vincent era sound.)
     
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  21. markaberrant

    markaberrant Forum Resident

    Location:
    Regina, SK, Canada
    Peter started sucking when Bob Ezrin forced him to play a boring 4/4 beat. It sucked all the life and creativity out of his style.
     
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  22. deeluxdx7

    deeluxdx7 Forum Resident

    No, Ringo was in the biggest band ever.

    But as a drummer? He is as maligned as Peter Criss....

    ....Maybe it's because I'm a musician, so I end up interacting with people who dissect his every move and judge all the minutia.

    I don't think regular FANS have a problem with Ringo....but the Cork-sniffing, drum snobs have a HUGE problem with him.

    I'm not saying I agree with them, I think he's GREAT!......But I've been hearing "studio sausages" talk about how bad he is all my life.
     
  23. Rose River Bear

    Rose River Bear Senior Member

    Glad to see this thread is still getting some attention. What a great thread.
     
  24. Doomster

    Doomster Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    Haha :) ... you are a proper fan!! No doubt she was also thinking "maybe this is the one" at exactly the same time!

    Agree with you re: non-Kiss aficionados believing Peter = best vocalist. Some think he's the only good vocalist (and typically that is a view not influenced by perceptions about his role in the band, whether he had the worst make up - he did, by far - or that he stuck behind the drums).
     
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  25. antonkk

    antonkk Senior Member

    Location:
    moscow

    Exactly. No Adler no Guns for me. They began to annoy me the moment Matt Sorum joined. He's almost as bad as Lars Ulrich.
     

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