Laptop streaming vs dedicated streamer?

I wonder how laptop streaming compares to dedicated higher-end streamer in terms of sound quality. I heard a lot about computer being a poor source of music. Some DDC like these https://www.denafrips.com/ddc are supposed to clean up the sound, though some DAC manufacturers say their DAC won't benefit from DDC - that's the response I received when reaching out to exaSound/Benchmark/PS audio.

I personally have tried Tidal (via audirvana on an apple laptop) + Benchmark DAC3 + Benchmark AHB2 + GoldenEar Triton Reference and liked the sound a lot. (and btw that's an optimal way of streaming recommended by Benchmark, though at that time a steamer wasn't in the scope of conversation) And I am really itching to know how good a high-end stream can be. I even thought about buying one to try but I dont want to abuse the return policy. I wonder if anyone has done the comparison. Thanks.

 

I have ZERO experience with component streamers, since streaming Apple Music via iTunes on my laptops seems to get the job done. Nevertheless, a few months ago I performed an experiment whereby I compared all of my means to music in an attempt to discern what medium sounded best.

The experiment was performed with Classic Hauser, a high dynamic range recording, on LP, CD, 24/96 FLAC Download, and Apple Music Download, playing nine ways to Sunday as listed below:

• LP>Technics SL-1210GR/Shure V15V (SAS)>Sony TA-E9000ES Pre-Pro Phono Preamplifier input
• 24/96 FLAC Download>Foobar2000>OPPO-205 DAC up sampling to 24/192>Sony TA-E9000ES analog input
• 24/96 FLAC Download>Foobar2000>Creative Sound Blaster X-FI HD (for usb to S/PDIF conversion at 24/96)>TA-E9000ES optical S/PDIF input
• Apple Music Download>iTunes>Airport Express (wi-fi to S/PDIF 16/44.1 output)>Sony TA-E9000ES optical S/PDIF input
• Apple Music Download>iTunes>OPPO-205 DAC up sampling to 24/192>Sony TA-E9000ES analog input
• Apple Music Download>iTunes>Creative Sound Blaster X-FI HD (for usb to S/PDIF conversion at 24/96)>TA-E9000ES optical S/PDIF input
• Apple Music Download>Network connection to OPPO-205 DAC up sampling to 24/192>Sony TA-E9000ES analog input
• 24/96 FLAC Download>Thumb Drive>OPPO-205 DAC up sampling to 24/192>Sony TA-E9000ES analog input
• 24/96 FLAC Download>Network connection to OPPO-205 DAC up sampling to 24/192>Sony TA-E9000ES analog input
• CD>OPPO-205>Sony TA-E9000ES analog input
• CD>Rip to iTunes in ALAC>OPPO-205 DAC up sampling to 24/192>Sony TA-E9000ES analog input
• CD>Rip to iTunes in ALAC>Airport Express (wi-fi to S/PDIF 16/44.1 output) Sony TA-E9000ES analog input
• CD>Rip to iTunes in ALAC>Creative Sound Blaster X-FI HD (for usb to S/PDIF conversion at 24/96)>Sony TA-E9000ES optical S/PDIF input

Conclusion: all processes yielded a satisfying listening experience, whereby tone, sound stage, and detail seemed so similar as to preclude any revelation to a particular process delivering the most compelling sound; however, three things did stand out: first, the presence of pops distracted LP pleasure, second, play of downloads via OPPO usb DAC, Drive Port, or Network connection is inconvenient, and finally, the iTunes play of the Apple Music AAC download via Airport Express to the Sony TA-E9000ES was most convenient, and sounded on par with the CD, ALAC and FLAC media. This makes me question any need for a means to music other than APPLE MUSIC. At any rate, the exercise was a fun activity on a cold and dreary weekend which has kept me indoors. Note, Apple Music to thumb drive was not tested, since it would have required purchase of the album to permit copy to thumb drive.

 

I too stream Tidal from Audirvana running on a MacBook into my Oppo 205 via usb...I think it sounds great, I’m very pleased.

I had heard that a disadvantage of doing it this way is potential noise from the mac’s usb ports, so I have an AQ jitterbug in the chain, but if I’m being honest...I don’t hear a difference with or without it. All good either way.

 

I started streaming with a MacBook Pro running Audirvana, with usb out to the internal DAC on an Anthem STR integrated amp. Wanting to try a dedicated streamer I briefly tried a Node 2i, but returned it as there was no increase in SQ, and I much preferred the Audirvana interface. Still not satisfied I then tried what is now my current streaming setup, a Bel Canto eOne Stream feeding a W4S DSD se DAC, using Roon as my interface. I’m quite happy with this setup and the only thing I could foresee myself doing would be to upgrade the W4S to the latest iteration.

 

A dedicated streamer should provide a much lower noise floor than the Mac Mini/general computer route which provide for more detail, space, dynamics, etc. Your mileage will vary, however, depending on your other components. I noticed a big difference when I upgraded my streaming front end to a Lumin T2. (I know that the T2 is an integrated DAC/streamer, but the streaming upgrade alone was worth it.)

I'm currently considering getting a Lumin U1 or Auralic Aries G2 for my other system, but that's a really big purchase for me so I'll definitely be working with a dealer that has a try-at-home/return policy.

 

the question is, are you hearing the DAC or streamer?

 

Zero interest in dedicated streamers. I use an iPad or TV through my systems. I guess I'm a Luddite...

 

Fair question. Shortly after I acquired the T2, I hooked up my prior DAC to it to utilize just the streaming function of the T2. The difference from my prior streamer was significant. The added DAC functionality within the T2 was the cherry on top.

 

I've also wondered about dedicated streamers vs laptop.

At the moment an old Lenovo laptop - stripped of superfluous apps - sits in the cupboard next to the hifi connected to ethernet and then usb to exogal comet dac playing up to 24/192 Qobuz and 320 Spotify.

No jitter issues - but sometimes buffering on Qobuz so find 24/96 is more stable. Even Spotify sounds better through this dac. laptop music apps can be controlled by phone from listening position.

Have looked at dedicated streamers but for a £1000 or more I don't see how it would be any great SQ or OS improvement?

Qobuz sounds equivalent to CD through the same dac and sometimes better - but that may be the master copy / higher res.

 

I’m streaming Qobuz via Audirvana on a Windows 10 laptop with solid state drive via a Reiyin USB/Toslink bridge to the DAC in a Yamaha AS 501. This works well for me; sounds good and I can control from my iPhone.

 

Running iTunes set to Windows Audio Session from Windows 10 on my laptop via Airport Express S/PDIF>Parasound P6 DAC, via HDMI>OPPO-205 DAC, or via usb>Parasound P6 DAC I sense no noise, just black as coal backgrounds, so I also don't sense a need for a dedicated streamer. After all if there is no noise from my means to streaming, what would less noise mean?

 

A good dedicated streamer beats PC streaming but there is a cost to it. I’m using the Lumin U1 Mini and it sounds better than streaming via me laptop with JRiver (both USB).

With U1 Mini there more resolution, clarity and better imaging. I realized that digital is more than just 1’s and 0’s.

 

Less noise is something that you can’t perceive until you actually experience it firsthand. It’s sort of like going from looking through a screen door which you think is really clear to removing the screen altogether. In practical terms (and to reiterate what I mentioned above), it essentially allows for more detail, space and dynamics to come through in the music.

For those that are interested, I would encourage you to check out some of the streaming-oriented threads on some of the other forums that have a more dedicated user base on this topic. There are lots of firsthand accounts on a variety product comparisons in the streamer world.

 

Not being snarky brother , but I’ve heard from measurement guys that there is zero diff. The DAC is supposed to remove all of that.

 

Yup. Unless you do silly things like put your DAC right on top of an electrically noisy computer or something like that, it's the DAC that matters these days.

Remember that measurement guys also do listen... It's not that much of an ordeal enjoying the music.

IMO, unless there's a feature that the streamer provides, I think a computer is just fine. Or you can always just put a Raspberry Pi together for fun.

 

thank god a voice of reason and science.
Lol

 

Here’s my observations being a computer guy. A simple iPod connected to your system, just flash memory and a battery, are going to be lower noise than any streamer with chips that have to connect to WiFi/Bluetooth/Ethernet or a home built PC with the sound card on the main board. It depends on multiple factors and the more complex you have a system the more chances to introduce interference. Now a well designed/built PC or streamer with isolated circuitry and low noise power supply, plus not turning on every network connection or running lots of other programs at the same time will help keep things quiet. Once you overload a PC/streamer with demanding tasks you lose the simplicity that provides clean audio.

 

Bluesound offers several types of streamers (including those built into NAD components). They all work together. You can use the built in DAC or an external DAC. The Vault allows one to rip CD collection to internal HDD. It can "see" your NAS or music on a Mac/PC. The UI is good enough. An elegant solution.

 

There are hundreds and hundreds of firsthand accounts on this topic across the web. But I don’t want to start another war with the measurements people, so all I can say is try for yourself.

 

When I stream my set up is Qobuz - Innuos Zen Mini mkII with a Sbooster BOTW Mk II LPS - Ayer QSB DSD - Krell 400xi(balanced input/outputs) - Hales Revelation 3 speakers.

Prior to this the setup was Qobuz - Imac - Schitt Eitr - Ayer QSB DSD - Krell 400xi (single ended input/outputs) - Hales Revelation 3 speakers.

I prefer to use the Innuos for both streaming and playing FLAC ripped cd’s stored on it. To my ear, my current setup provides a better dynamic range and improved top end detail. It also has a better user interface than using an Ipad to control Qobuz on the Imac. Soundwise, I could live with either.

I’m not certain the better dynamic range comes from the use of a dedicated streamer. It could be the difference between balanced vs. SE inputs.

Without a doubt I prefer listening to vinyl; probably my age. I’ve been listening to LP’s for 40+ years and that’s what I learned music through a home audio system should sound like.

No doubt streaming is the way to go for discovering new music as its obviously very budget friendly once you are passed aquiring the streamer and the dac plus cabling.

 

the reason I am certain there is no noise is comparison and contrast to SACD of same production.

 

That’s not an apples to apples comparison. Compare your laptop setup to one or two dedicated streamers and see for yourself.

 

Sure it is an apples to apples comparison since what is being compared is noise.

 

Streamed from windows 10 laptop using Qobuz for quite sometime. Qobuz was very quirky to the point I had enough.

Happily streaming blue sound node 2i to external dac with Amazon HD, could not be happier at the moment.

 

Laptop streaming is capable of pretty good sound quality from my first-hand experience, what I'm curious to find out is how it compares to very good (Stereophile Class A+ good) streamer as rest of my system is up there.

Clarification on DAC manufacturers comment regarding a reclocker/DDC won't further improve sound quality: their DAC have built-in reclocker so they dont think another would benefit. So a reclocker/DDC is most likely to improve SQ if you dont alread have one.