Lily, Rosemary and the Jack of Hearts - interpretations

Here's my interpretation. I'll admit to not having read everyone else's in full detail, so some may overlap with what's already been said.

Lily and the JoH are obviously in cahoots. Rosemary might have been involved with them from the beginning, as well. It's clear that Lily is Big Jim's mistress (she had his "ring"), and obviously Rosemary is his wife. In fact, I believe I've read some interpretations that Lily might be Rosemary's (illegitimate) daughter, from before she married Big Jim. (Perhaps Lily dyes her hair to lessen the resemblance to her mother?) In fact, if you ignore the "missing" verse, it might even be assumed that Lily is the JoH's daughter with Rosemary. (Though then the last verse doesn't make much sense, seeing as how "her father" and the JoH are mentioned seperately.)

Either way, the JoH and Lily have a history as well. Big Jim recognizes him, possibly because his picture has been on her shelf. Big Jim (with Rosemary at his side) stumbles onto the two of them in a dressing room. He prepares to shoot Lily and/or the JoH, but instead Rosemary stabs him in the back (with the knife in which she'd earlier been looking at her reflection). This was clearly the "one good deed" she wanted to do. After all, she was "with Big Jim, but she was leaning to the Jack of Hearts." The "click" of Big Jim's revolver might, in fact, indicate that it had no bullets - they would have been removed by Rosemary. This would explain his "surpised" look.

The drilling is the JoH's boys attempting to get into Big Jim's safe. It's done during the (noisy) Caberet show, so as not to draw too much attention. In fact, perhaps the whole situation of Jim finding Lily and the JoH together - and being killed by Rosemary - might have been a set-up from the beginning, to create a further distraction.

 

I like it.

I was wondering about the relationship between Lily and Rosemary. I have suspected they were in cahoots.

Big Jim would have thought the Jack of Hearts looked familiar because Lily is the new and improved version of Rosemary. And because Lily is the Jack of Hearts' daughter. Rosemary might sacrifice herself if she were Lily's mother. Interesting.

Indeed, even though he has relations with her, it might be Lily's picture he has upon a shelf. This would augment the room full of mirrors and general theme of reflections.

I'm not sure Big Jim is married to Rosemary, though. Does Lily know she is Rosemary's daughter? I'll look at this again tomorrow. I like your reading of the characters. I haven't seen any interpretations other than those on this board.

 

I love thhis song. The imagery evoked is amazing.

I interpert it as Lily being the wife (has his ring), and Rosemary as the other woman (...playing the "role" of big Jim's wife).

Hearts and Lily are in the room when big jim bursts in. The click I think of as an empty gun. Now, is he "not" surprised that the gun was empty, or not surprised to see his wife with Hearts?

Who killed Jim? They all have motive, but he was stabbed in the back. Who could have gotten to his back? Maybe Lily rushed to him to hug him and stabbed him? Maybe that was Rosemary's one good deed? I don't think it was Hearts...how could he have gotten to his back?

Maybe Jim wasn't surprised the gun was empty because he has suspected one of his bodyguards of turning against him? One of the bodyguards could have come up behind him. The only reason I think to bring an unknown character into this is because of one of the last verses wording has always puzzled me.

"...For one more member who had business back in town.
But they couldn't go no further without the Jack of Hearts."

I know it seems like the one more member is Hearts, but why write "But" to start the last line? If they were waiting for Hearts woudn't "'cause" fit better? It could be they are waiting for one more member (bodyguard killer) and Hearts.

Just a couple more thoughts.

 

One thing about Dylan is he likes for each person to get an idea to what the song means to them. That's why he doesnt interpit much on his songs. Even though its fun to compare notes

 

Yeah, but what about St. Augustine, Judas Priest or the guy on the watchtower....aren't these all veiled references to the Chronicles of Narnia? Just kidding...:+)

 

I think it was clearly St. Augustine who killed Big Jim. After the altercation he bolted off to Black Diamond Bay, leaving Rosemary (aka "Miss Lonely") to take the rap. Too bad. She should have made a better deal with the Mystery Tramp, but then he wasn't selling what she needed.....

L.

 

Yea, but the line is "It was known all around that Lily had Jim's ring." I.e., it was sort of an "open secret" that she was taken by Jim. That doesn't sound like they were married.

Sure, I suppose "role" could imply that they weren't really married, but I take that line at face value. Plus, she's the one on his arm at the Caberet, not Lily. The song seems to imply that Rosemary is the gal Jim is seen with in public (presumably because they're married), and Lily is the one he sees on the side.

Dylan actually sings, "For they couldn't go no further." (Despite what the website lyrics say, he's actually singing "for.") That would imply JoH is the "one more member."

 

The book is actually called The Rose and the Briar. It's edited by Sean Wilentz and Greil Marcus and has a "soundtrack" CD with some of the songs.

Also, I think someone wrote a play based on this song a few years after it was released. It wasn't related to Dylan in any other way, but I seem to recall that it had Rosemary as the Jack's mother, which turns the whole story into a Hamlet-type thing.

 

Another little tid bit about interpitation. You know I have read numerous books by "dylanologists" . And though interesting , I have found for me at least when certain aspects of the mystery are filled in by these well meaning fellows it takes away those "blank" spaces that Dylan purposely put there in order to allow a universal interpitation to take place. Not knowing is sometimes the sweet part of artistry.

johnny33

 

I've always enjoyed this song. It's one of those songs that I've tried to follow along with, to no avail mostly (Vicki Lawrence's "The Night The Lights Went Out In Georgia" is another, and nowhere near as good), as opposed to narrative songs that are easy to follow ("El Paso", "Ode To Billie Joe") ...

 

I assume it's a bank robbery because of the following lines:

"Two doors down the boys finally made it through the wall
And cleaned out the bank safe, it's said that they got off with quite a haul" [italics added].

Seems like a pretty "safe" assumption!

L.

 

Right - apparently the bank and the Cabaret share a wall - the "boys" are drilling from the Cabaret to get into (the vault of?) the bank, rather than breaking into the bank directly. They use the noise and confusion of the show to disguise their work ("The drilling in the wall kept up, but no one paid it any mind"). And that's why the Cabaret is closed at the end of the song - with a sign that says "Closed for repairs" - there's a big hole in the wall leading into the bank.

 

But what about the hanging judge? At first, he's drunk, but the next morning, "he hadn't had a drink." And, Jack is missing. Is it possible that Jack is impersonating the Judge -- and that's why Rosemary "doesn't blink" -- because she knows he'll set her free?

 

One thing that has not been touched upon is the song in the context of the album. Blood On The Tracks is considered his "break-up" album regarding the dissolution of his marriage. I think the most important aspect of the song is that it is ultimately about two overlapping love triangles: Lily-Rosemary-Big Jim and Lily-Jack of Hearts-Big Jim. There is a lot of betrayal going on on this album, and this song is no different. If the listener wants to fill in the backstory, one can try this. The relationship between Lily and Jack is something in the past. Probably the only one that comes closest to "true love". For whatever reason, they are separated. Lily then becomes involved with married man Big Jim and its probably not a great relationship. Big Jim is in a position to buy her favor. Somewhere along the line, Big Jim and Jack become aware of each other. Jack decides to bring his gang into town to rip-off Big Jim by breaking into his bank vault. Jim only knows of Jack as Lily's "true love" and he doesn't fully put together recognizing him in verses E & F. When he does put it together in verse M, it is when his wife Rosemary decides to confront Lily and him. Independent of the relationship between Jack and Big Jim, she is fed up of the relationship between Lily and Big Jim. Rosemary stabs Jim in the back right before Jim is about to shoot Jack in Lily's dressingroom. Again, I think that allegory of two overlapping love triangles is the point of Dylan is trying to make with this song.

 

That's well said, and gives us a reason for imagining both that Big Jim owns the saloon (in addition, I'd still insist, to a diamond mine) and that "bank vault" refers to a wall-safe in the establoishment itself. One thing: why do you call it an "allegory?"

L.

 

Umm, I don't think I'm going to go up against an English professor and win, but I'll try. An allegory to events that happened in his own life?

 

I think just about any interpretation is possible. Much like Steely Dan lyrics, there's a lot of deliberate ambiguity. I think the judge simply had not had a drink the following day. He was sobering up. I think the hanging judge, as a metaphor, is signaling a new day -- a day of aftermath.

As far as this whole bank vault affair, while I can appreciate the literal interpretation -- same as I can appreciate that many believe there's an actual diamond mine is this one tent town -- I view the term "bank" in nefarious terms. To me it simply represents the ill-gotten gains from the brothel. Black market language: "he's my bank" or "who's got the bank?" meaning financial sponsor or holder of the loot. I don't think Big Jim's "bank" was an actual bank, hence the body guards and silver cane and all that imagery.

 

I mostly like the song because you can clog dance to it.

Seriously, I'm totally on board with the interpretations by Louis & cvila. As far as context is concerned, it's interesting to contrast it w/ the rest of the album: it's the fastest song and the funniest (first time I heard it, "the boys finally made it through the wall" was a big belly laugh for me -- Dylan isn't kidding about being a Joker -- but asided from this song, all you have is some nasty cracks in "Idiot Wind"). It seems the least personal -- the other songs have some bizarre images, but they all serve some central emotion. This song is the only straight story, set in the Old West of Dime Novels. I also think it's the most positive, despite what happens to Rosemary & Big Jim or that Jack & Lilly are on their own at the end.

"Up to Me" is a great song & would have fit well on the album in many ways, but it would have been another positive song, yet with less contrast. It's slower & more personal (again, odd images serving a central emotion).

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it!

I wonder about the diamond mine -- there weren't really many in the West were there? I thought I read they were mostly hoaxes, gold & silver being more common. Could explain such a podunk town & Jim's bad nature. "Dia-mond" has two syllables, so it scans better than go-ld, sounds more important than silver and is associated with wedding rings or true love. I dunno.

Ross
"And in this land of conditions I'm not above suspicion
I won't attack you, but I won't back you." -- Neil Young

 

Well, I wasn't looking at it as a contest.... I just wanted to know what you had in mind. We could read it as an allegory of that kind, as long as we could come up with person and event in Dylan's life that corresponds to each character and event in the song (or at least the major ones along with a general sense of how and why the setting and the various details are symbolically appropriate, etc.). I doubt that Dylan would have worked out an allegory like this, but it's possible.

It's probably just analogous in less exact ways. As what you said originally suggested, it makes sense that someone going through a difficult divorce would be attracted to writing and singing this kind of song.

L.

 

bump.

Here's something i noticed, regarding the culprit:

No one knew the circumstance but they say that it happened pretty quick
The door to the dressing room burst open and a cold revolver clicked
And Big Jim was standin’ there, ya couldn’t say surprised
Rosemary right beside him, steady in her eyes
She was with Big Jim but she was leanin’ to the Jack of Hearts

I think the Jack of Hearts might've killed Big Jim, but Rosemary had thoughts about killing Jim.
This is if you use the conversational meanings of "i'm with someone" and "i'm leaning more to".
She is with Big Jim on this so to speak, as on one hand she didn't like her husband being assassinated, but had to admit he had it coming and that she had murder thoughts too and so was leaning to the JOH.

 

The Jack of Hearts, or the Knave of Hearts is a figure from Lewis Caroll Alice in wonderland.
So is the hanging judge. Princess Lily comes from Through the looking glass.
The scene takes place in a mirrored room => What looks nothing is real and what looks real is nothing.
This song is hiding things in plain sight. You won't understand the song until you know what to look for.

I just stumbled upon this song a couple of day's ago.
Let me explain the parts that I know:

The Jack of Hearts is a real person who died:
-Face down like the Jack of Hearts" Did you ever see a dead person looking up ?
-You are looking like a saint, Only dead people are declared saint by the pope.
-They couldn't go no further without the Jack of Hearts, Jack is no longer there, no longer alive.
-The only person on the scene missin' was the Jack of Hearts. Jack is no longer there, no longer alive.
-most of all she was thinkin' 'bout the Jack of Hearts, Jack is no longer there, you can only remember him.
There's blood on the track: The blood of The Jack of Hearts.
So who is the Jack of Hearts ?
"Jack", his name starts with "Ja"
"Paint, his name starts with "Pa"
"Haul", his name rhymes on it.
"Carriage", his name starts with "Car"

The Jack of Hearts was replaced after his death by the mysterious stranger:
He looking like the Jack of Hearts.
Face down like the Jack of Hearts.
Lily called another ... Jack of Hearts.
I know I've seen that face before, similar face
there's a brand-new coat = a brand new Jacket
There was no actor anywhere better than the Jack of Hearts, The person who replaced him was a very good actor.
Butterfly, an insect with large wings
"A monk, a shorthand for monkey, could be a reference to planet of the Apes.

The Boys are a famous rock and roll group.
A heart beats.
Planning for a fall: Think of Newtons law and what do you get: An apple.
Planning for a fall, also tells you the season, the events took place.
Drilling in the wall The backside of one of their albums shows a wall with holes in it.
A cold revolver clicked: Revolver, A name of one of there albums.
Big Jim: A Peruvian pepper. Pepper is part of the name of one of their albums.
The Boys couldn't go no further without the Jack of Hearts:, They now are the lonely Hearts club band.
The boys are placed in a robbery scene: Rob might come from rubber, a part of the name of one of their albums.

Rosemary: Is the Virgin Mary, or the planet Venus, or the goddess Lakshmi, the goddess of Love.
Roman Polanski made a movie about her baby.

Search a record company, named Apple records.
Search a band with the name Lonely hearts club band.
Search a band-member who's name starts with "Ja" from Jack or "Pa" from Paint or "Car" from "Carriage".
and his name rhymes on "Haul"
Not to difficult is it ?

On the album sgt Pepper's Lonely hearts club band there's a picture of Bob Dylan.
Ther i's also a picture of Lewiss Caroll
If you mirror the drum (rememberDylan mentions a mirrored room) you get 1 one 9 he die, That's in the middle of the autumn or fall.

Since 1966 There's been a romour that this rock-star has died and was replaced.
I don't know if Bob Dylan took any part in his death, but I now know that Bob Dylan knows more about it.
Dylan takes part in a memorial festival on 7 - 9 october, called desert trip,
because it's almost 50 years ago that this rock-star died.

There's another viewpoint and it's telling the same story:
Rosemary is the planet Venus
Lily might be the sun
Big Jim might be the moon
His bodyguards, the diamonds might be the stars.
I don't know much about astrology but on 9th november 1966 there was a Venus sun conjunction.
Venus is related to death and rebirth.

 

"...Well, I guess."

L.

 

Fun song.
Breaks up the pathos going on on the rest on the album.
Like saying "See, things aren't THAT bad".