Linda's favorite digital versions of all Black Sabbath albums

I'll have to check. All of them? Or specific albums?

 

Both Heaven and Hell and Mob Rules.

 

OK; and sorry that I am not entirely savvy with the vocabulary, but with "quiet", do you mean the peaks are relatively low, or do you mean these masterings have a relatively large dynamic range?

 

As in just the volume is very low all round. I added some Dio tracks to The Ultimate Collection comp, which is an Ozzy era collection and also uses the 2009 masterings and the difference in volume is very noticable.

 

The Ultimate Collection actually uses the 2012 masterings found on the 2016 WB CDs. The 2009 labelling found in some listings is inaccurate.

 

The 2009 or 201o Pearce remaster for both is very well done, imo. As a testament to his work, you may want to compare these titles with the 2008 remasters which are very compressed. You’ll hear a noticeable difference, I’m sure.

 

Thanks for clarifying.

As rnranimal already said, The Ultimate Collection uses the 2012, not the 2009 masterings. It is possible that it claims to use the 2009 masterings, but if it does, it is a mistake. Same goes for many streaming files. It is obvious when you compare them to the 2014 HDtracks or 2016 WB/Rhino CDs (both of which use the 2012 masterings) vs. the 2009 through 2011 Sanctuary CDs.

Regarding your question, the HaH Deluxe has a relatively high dynamic range (DR13), same as the original US WB CD and the original WG Vertigo CD, but much more dynamic than the 2008 "Rules of Hell" CD and the 1996 Castle CD), and mostly rather low peak values. The Mob Rules Deluxe is more compressed (DR11) than the original CDs, but again more dynamic than the 2008 "Rules of Hell" CD and the 1996 Castle CD); none of the tracks hits 0.00 dB, but most peaks on the Mob Rules Deluxe are not quite as low as most peaks on HaH Deluxe.

And of course it is common that the tracks on a CD compilation have their volume levels adjusted to roughly align with each other. So whatever tracks you add to it, there's a chance you will have to adjust their volume level as well. See the peak and DR values for Heaven and Hell, Mob Rules and The Ultimate Edition below.

Anyway, given that the tracks on TUC contain the bright 2012 Pearce remasters (ranging from "relatively bright" to "extremely bright"), I think it is a rather bad idea to add tracks from the HaH and MR Deluxe CDs which are both dark-sounding.

================================================================================

foobar2000 1.5 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
log date: 2020-01-17 17:16:18

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: Black Sabbath / Heaven And Hell (Deluxe Expanded Edition, CD1)
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DR Peak RMS Duration Track
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DR12 -0.36 dB -13.91 dB 3:54 01-Neon Knights
DR14 -0.69 dB -16.83 dB 5:35 02-Children Of The Sea
DR14 -0.89 dB -16.13 dB 4:26 03-Lady Evil
DR13 -1.76 dB -17.97 dB 6:58 04-Heaven And Hell
DR13 -1.54 dB -16.32 dB 4:08 05-Wishing Well
DR12 -1.95 dB -17.90 dB 4:45 06-Die Young
DR13 -1.75 dB -16.32 dB 4:26 07-Walk Away
DR14 -0.73 dB -17.80 dB 5:50 08-Lonely Is The Word
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks: 8
Official DR value: DR13

Samplerate: 44100 Hz
Channels: 2
Bits per sample: 16
Bitrate: 918 kbps
Codec: FLAC
================================================================================

foobar2000 1.5 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
log date: 2020-01-17 17:29:18

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: Black Sabbath / Mob Rules (Deluxe Expanded Edition, CD1)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR Peak RMS Duration Track
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DR11 -0.45 dB -13.01 dB 3:43 01-Turn Up The Night
DR12 -0.60 dB -13.89 dB 4:32 02-Voodoo
DR13 -0.43 dB -15.78 dB 7:48 03-The Sign Of The Southern Cross
DR10 -2.98 dB -18.10 dB 2:51 04-E5150
DR11 -0.42 dB -13.34 dB 3:17 05-The Mob Rules
DR12 -0.38 dB -13.94 dB 4:03 06-Country Girl
DR11 -0.26 dB -12.46 dB 3:46 07-Slipping Away
DR11 -0.53 dB -14.35 dB 5:04 08-Falling Off The Edge Of The World
DR11 -0.26 dB -13.41 dB 5:32 09-Over And Over
DR11 -0.46 dB -13.36 dB 4:04 10-Die Young (Live, 12' Single B-Side of Mob Rules)
DR11 -0.26 dB -12.59 dB 3:14 11-The Mob Rules (Heavy Metal Soundtrack Version)
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Number of tracks: 11
Official DR value: DR11

Samplerate: 44100 Hz
Channels: 2
Bits per sample: 16
Bitrate: 952 kbps
Codec: FLAC
================================================================================


foobar2000 1.5 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
log date: 2020-01-17 18:51:29

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: Black Sabbath / The Ultimate Collection - CD1
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DR Peak RMS Duration Track
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DR12 -0.26 dB -13.65 dB 2:50 01-Paranoid
DR11 -0.38 dB -12.13 dB 3:49 02-Never Say Die
DR11 -1.10 dB -13.50 dB 5:55 03-Iron Man
DR10 -0.64 dB -13.57 dB 6:19 04-Black Sabbath
DR11 -0.26 dB -13.58 dB 5:16 05-Children Of The Grave
DR11 -0.27 dB -13.10 dB 6:14 06-Fairies Wear Boots
DR12 -2.12 dB -16.36 dB 4:43 07-Changes
DR12 -0.78 dB -15.98 dB 2:30 08-Rat Salad
DR11 -0.26 dB -12.95 dB 5:05 09-Sweet Leaf
DR12 -0.65 dB -14.28 dB 7:55 10-War Pigs
DR11 -0.68 dB -13.23 dB 5:45 11-Sabbath Bloody Sabbath
DR11 -0.26 dB -13.36 dB 3:59 12-Hole In The Sky
DR11 -0.43 dB -14.43 dB 6:30 13-Symptom Of The Universe
DR12 -0.26 dB -15.08 dB 5:30 14-Spiral Architect
DR12 -0.50 dB -13.59 dB 3:25 15-Rock 'N' Roll Doctor
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks: 15
Official DR value: DR11

Samplerate: 44100 Hz
Channels: 2
Bits per sample: 16
Bitrate: 918 kbps
Codec: FLAC
================================================================================

foobar2000 1.5 / Dynamic Range Meter 1.1.1
log date: 2020-01-17 18:51:54

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed: Black Sabbath / The Ultimate Collection - CD2
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR Peak RMS Duration Track
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR11 -0.34 dB -13.45 dB 7:09 01-Dirty Women
DR11 -0.26 dB -12.85 dB 3:22 02-Evil Woman, Don't Play Your Games With Me
DR11 -0.26 dB -14.61 dB 6:02 03-A Hard Road
DR12 -0.26 dB -13.83 dB 5:25 04-Lord Of This World
DR13 -0.26 dB -14.43 dB 6:12 05-Into The Void
DR11 -0.52 dB -12.54 dB 3:38 06-Behind The Wall Of Sleep
DR11 -0.41 dB -14.12 dB 5:25 07-Snowblind
DR11 -0.26 dB -12.87 dB 3:08 08-Tomorrow's Dream
DR11 -0.26 dB -13.03 dB 4:22 09-The Wizard
DR11 -0.26 dB -12.39 dB 6:04 10-N.I.B.
DR11 -0.26 dB -13.74 dB 4:50 11-Electric Funeral
DR10 -5.30 dB -17.28 dB 0:28 12-Embryo
DR11 -0.26 dB -12.85 dB 5:41 13-Killing Yourself To Live
DR12 -0.26 dB -13.98 dB 4:14 14-Am I Going Insane
DR11 -0.32 dB -13.33 dB 4:44 15-Wicked World
DR12 -0.36 dB -15.11 dB 3:59 16-It's Alright
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of tracks: 16
Official DR value: DR11

Samplerate: 44100 Hz
Channels: 2
Bits per sample: 16
Bitrate: 948 kbps
Codec: FLAC
================================================================================

 

So have you already listened to all five Ozzy-Sabbath SACDs and found that you prefer either the 1986 Castle or the 2009 Sanctuary CDs for each one of these five albums? Just curious because e.g. the MOR SACD is a rather different animal IMO from the s/t SACD (in terms of brightness and more). I would be interesting in a revised (or unchanged) list of your preferred Sabbath masterings.

 

which version of Master of reality ,reveals more sonic details?

 

SACD

 

I agree. IMO the MOR SACD is pretty much perfect.

caprireds, I can send you a sound sample if you like.

 

S/T- Wonderful to hear, as it gives me an idea of what the first press sounds like. Great clarity, but I also like dark masterings, so it will be a combination of the SACD and the 2009. However, for everyday listening I’d say the edge goes to the 2009.

Paranoid - The SACD sounds similar to the Intercord. I’m waiting to hear what the 33PD sounds like. For now though, I prefer the Intercord, minus the tape drop outs on Iron Man

MOR - Again, great clarity on the SACD and I feel privileged to have it. However in this case for purely sentimental reasons my favourite is still the 86’ Castle It reminds me of when I was first introduced to Black Sabbath by way of a cassette. Sweet Leaf was the first Sabbath song I ever heard btw. My friend later dubbed me off a copy. The sound made such an impression on me at the time (dark and sludgy) that even now, whenever I hear it - it sounds like “home” to me. Even though I know that objectively, the SACD is the definitive version, I won’t change my mind! Lol

Volune 4 - I love the SACD, but again for daily listens I prefer the 2009 - a bit more power, sludge and bottom end to it, imo.

SBS - Hands down, the SACD. I like it even better than my 86’ Castle, which I didn’t think was possible.

 

thanx Linda .. the happy news I own the SACD already.

just read somewhere that, the deluxe 2016 is more transparent than the SACD (so may be more detailed) , so asked your opinion.

 

Yeah, some people who like the 2012 Pearce remasters (used for the 2016 CDs) claim that they reveal "more detail" than other releases. If so, that's simply because the high end is boosted, which means you'll here "more" (and thus more details) in the higher frequency range. Basically, any EQ move will push some sonic information to the forefront, thus pushing some other information to the background. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but neither is it necessarily a good thing. In case of the 2012 Pearce remasters, we mostly get a lot of "detail" right in our faces that simply doesn't belong there. Anyway, of the people I have talked to who have been able to listen to both the MOR SACD and the 2012 Pearce remaster, about 97% clearly prefer the SACD. It sounds amazing.

 

@Linda
Have you never listened to any of the different versions of the first 4 sabbath's albums?

 

Did you read the first several posts in this thread? Seems as if a plethora of different versions were evaluated by Linda.

For me personally when it comes to sound quality the word "detail" more often than not means danger in form of artificial high end boost (as you mentioned) and or worse - Dynamic Range Compression.

 

I wonder if she ever missed any version..

 

What kind of a question is that?

Have I ever claimed that I had listened to each and every digital Sabbath release out there? Surely not. But whenever anyone here has suggested to me that there be an upgrade over my favorites, I checked it out. And it is not like we're starting from scratch here. Many others have discussed these releases for many years.
Roland's favorite CD versions of Black Sabbath albums (part2)

If you, after reading this thread, believe I have been missing any specific release you like, point it out.

 

Hi Linda,
just wanted to tell you how much I appreciate this most interesting thread! Numerous points have already been made in other threads, but to re-collect them, sorting them and putting them in the right context gives it all a new quality again.
Dating up the whole topic is a good idea as opinions might well differ through the years.
I really admire your painstaking and very well organized approach, you're reaching LukPac-level here!
I keep reading this, though I guess I can't add much - but I wish you all the best here, and don't let the occasional dumbheaded post steer you astray!

edit: I'm highly interested how you'll handle Sabotage in your repeated shootout!

 

Sabotage is a tough one... I’m still torn between the original WB and the 2009.

 

Worst to Best Albums: Black Sabbath



Sea of Tranquility
Published on Jan 18, 2020

Join host Pete Pardo as he ranks the Black Sabbath studio discography from worst to best (his least favorite to favorite).

 

Same here. The 1986 Castle is good too, maybe even better, minus the damaged tracks. Are you familiar with it? (Sorry, I know I am not making your life easier.)

Thanks for your kind words! Exactly: I never intended to re-invent the wheel here, but to re-organize what we know, add to or expand on it when possible, and leave behind what's obsolete (IMO, of course).

As for Sabotage, I admit I am not looking forward to it. Comparing 1 or 2 tracks of an album is nice in some cases and tiresome in others. Comparing 3 or 4 tracks, as in case of the debut album (because of the problems with Wicked World and Evil Woman, see my original post above), already gives me a headache. Comparing every single track of an album? I'd rather not, but given ricks' comments above, I don't think I will be able to avoid it.

 

Black Sabbath-Black Sabbath-Original pressing on WB US...CD

 

I think there are better digital versions of the s/t than the WB CD... just saying.

 

granted...but that's my favorite...: )