Looks like HMV in the UK may survive after all...

Discussion in 'Marketplace Discussions' started by Sound of the Suburbs, Feb 3, 2019.

  1. Man at C&A

    Man at C&A Senior Member

    Location:
    England
    Yeah, I visited Edinburgh just before Covid and it surprised me that I didn't find an independent record shop, only Fopp, which I spent a lot in. I probably wasn't looking hard enough though. It was through work so I couldn't spend a lot of time searching out record shops.
     
  2. Eric_Generic

    Eric_Generic Enigma

    Location:
    Berkshire
    Sounds like my memories of HMV - fuelled by binge-reading old Music Week magazines lately - is better than the reality I'd be faced with should I ever be able to visit one of their physical stores again.

    I do try and use the website but they're hampered by a lack of selection and uncompetitive pricing on a lot of stuff. The Blu-Ray offers and HMV exclusives on CD (usually Lana del Rey!) are my only real purchases there now.

    EG.
     
  3. WeeSam

    WeeSam Forum Resident

    Location:
    United Kingdom
    let them close - good riddance.

    Their aggressive sales practices - huge stores, undercut pricing - was one of the factors that caused the decimation of independents. Especially so around their flagship on Oxford Street which had a massive detrimental effect on the independents on Berwick Street. That place was buzzing with record shops and HMV squeezed them out. It wasn't a sad day on Berwick Street when that flagship closed.

    All is fair in love and war and capitalism, and fair enough - they used market forces and economies of scale to their benefit. They are now failing according to and due to the same forces and are being squeezed out by streaming, torrenting and online shopping. Too bad so sad.

    Hopefully, there will still be enough customers (for at least a few years yet) that still want to buy physical and shop in store, and independents can fill that niche.

    If independents do not fill that niche, then as record buyers we reap what we sow. Use it or lose it.
     
    Pouchkine and Man at C&A like this.
  4. WeeSam

    WeeSam Forum Resident

    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Glaswegians prefer to eat cheese, preferably fried, than to buy CDs.

    Looking at the waistlines and unhealthy pallors around the place, that's clear.
     
    Hammerhead likes this.
  5. wallpaperman

    wallpaperman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Edinburgh
    What a lot of tosh, you really think all those shops in Berwick Street would still exist if it were not for HMV? Got nothing to do with downloads and streaming now taking 80% of the market, no nothing to do with that.

    As things stand in 2021, there’s no reason that well run independent records stores and HMV can’t co-exist.

    We have next to no independent stores in Edinburgh, one that I can think of panders to the vinyl brigade and sells practically no CD’s, and the other which used to have a number of shops in the capital now makes most of their money selling T-shirts and posters to tourist with a bit of music sold as well (not complaining, gotta make a living).
     
  6. jimod99

    jimod99 Daddy or chips?

    Location:
    Ottawa, ON
    How does that explain the branch of Fopp in Union Street with the Argyle Street branch of HMV a couple of hundred yards away?

    Both of which have pretty decent cd departments.
     
  7. WeeSam

    WeeSam Forum Resident

    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Read what I said.

    Those independents closed - in large part - because of the presence of HMV (and Tower round the corner). There was no appreciable downloading or streaming when those stores started to close on Berwick Street. People that had the internet had at best dial up, or if they were a business they might have had ISDN. Who was streaming then? There was Napster and it was used by next to nobody (Napster had about 12 million users worldwide at its peak and on average about 5 million users.)

    Now, you are right (in some fantasy parallel world) in that if HMV did not exist, then those stores would now have been up against the pressures of digital. But that's 20 years down the road.
     
  8. WeeSam

    WeeSam Forum Resident

    Location:
    United Kingdom
    the customers have already filled up on cheese.
     
  9. WeeSam

    WeeSam Forum Resident

    Location:
    United Kingdom
    and?

    how many do you need? Edinburgh is a small place. It has as many shops as the market can sustain. There are no record shops in my town. There is one in the next town about 3 miles away. That's what the market can bear nowadays. Use it or lose it.

    The big boys (HMV etc) drove out the independents; now streaming is driving out the big boys. What will be left is a few boutique independents scattered around the place. And maybe Rough Trade somewhere in the middle (at least Rough Trade seem to be doing things to stay relevant - unique limited editions; extra tracks; bonus discs; music clubs; live shows; cafes; and a good retail experience so its actually a pleasure to go in there and browse)>
     
  10. Porkpie

    Porkpie Forum Resident

    Location:
    UK
    If anyone’s bought vinyl online from HMV in the UK, do they arrive on release day or get posted on release day?
     
  11. mishima's dog

    mishima's dog Forum Resident

    Location:
    Glasgow, Scotland
    Yeah Glasgow’s got plenty of great record/cd stores. Especially independents - more than Edinburgh or Manchester I’d say but don’t feed the troll. Not even fried cheese.
     
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  12. wallpaperman

    wallpaperman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Edinburgh
    Your posts are hard to follow, I had no idea you were talking about 20 years ago.

    Would it not be that these small independent shops were getting squeezed by the larger indies like Rough Trade, rather than the megastores who probably weren’t aware they even existed?
     
  13. wallpaperman

    wallpaperman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Edinburgh
    Edinburgh is small? Just the half million people, plus the millions of visitors (in normal times) a year.

    The last time I tried to buy 2 new release CD’s the week they came out by artists that were well known, but not mainstream, the best known independent in Edinburgh had neither. This was a number of years ago, never tried since with them.
     
  14. WeeSam

    WeeSam Forum Resident

    Location:
    United Kingdom
    hard to follow? I was talking about when the independents started to close shop on Berwick Street...(sorry, but I thought it would be obvious from context).

    It would be a case of extreme myopia for HMV not to know if shops selling the same product existed : especially when they exist immediately adjacent (literally yards away) from the flagship store. I used to talk to the people working in these shops at the time : HMV (and to a degree Tower Records) business plan was to hoover up the indies. That's quite an obvious strategy in any business is it not?

    Rough Trade wasn't so big then (with respect to retail floor space in London, it was obviously a very influential label). Their shop near Portobello Road markets was - and still is - just a tiny little shop.

    There were obviously many factors, and are many factors, why small shops die. But it certainly did not help Berwick Street (and the surrounding streets), which was the epi-centre of record shops not just in London but the UK and possibly Europe, that there were two megastores with very aggressive marketing at either end of the street. Of course, digital came along anyway so it would have just delayed their closure.

    The point I was making is that HMV are going for the same reasons that the independents went - market forces : cheaper, better, more convenient product is available elsewhere. HMV were ruthless, so I have no sympathy for them. It wasn't a sad day for the indies when the flagship went by any means. Live by the sword and all that.
     
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2021
  15. WeeSam

    WeeSam Forum Resident

    Location:
    United Kingdom
    so sure, Edinburgh is clearly either not big enough (in terms of customers wanting to buy physical records) to support the records shops you feel are missing; or there is a gaping hole in the market. I suggest it is the former. If its the latter, then there is a good opportunity for somebody to make some money.
     
  16. WeeSam

    WeeSam Forum Resident

    Location:
    United Kingdom
    seems that way
    that seems unlikely, but possible, I haven't been to Manchester for several years
     
  17. Exitmusic

    Exitmusic Forum Resident

    Location:
    Leicester U.K
  18. Ste_S

    Ste_S Forum Resident

    Location:
    Birmingham, UK
    I record shopped in Soho, Covent Garden and Camden Town through most of the 90s for vinyl. I don't think HMV had much to do with the closure of the indies in those places; they catered for different crowds. HMV just didn't have the breadth of specialist records on vinyl that the indies had. HMV was usually more expensive also.

    I think it was a combination of rising rents (all three places look very different now), and the advent of downloads, legal or not.

    I've moved away from London now, but make a beeline for Sounds of the Universe whenever I go back
     
  19. followmehome

    followmehome Forum Resident

    Location:
    England
    Seeing as they made a point of making music more prominent again when Sunrise took over, I'm guessing there's a legit reason for what has happened since... and that is that music sales are nowhere what they used to be. Simple as that. Independent shops tend to be in less desirable locations, much smaller units with a fraction of the rent to pay.

    Would you prefer it if they closed? Do you complain about all the non-book stuff they sell in Waterstones too?
     
  20. Man at C&A

    Man at C&A Senior Member

    Location:
    England
    The non book stuff in Waterstones is a much smaller percentage of their entire stock. As for HMV closing, I'd have never said this a couple of years ago, but I don't think I'd be all that bothered now. Some of the pricing shows nothing but greed and contempt for the customers. Especially when it is in low income areas like where I am. The staff are great and I'd certainly sympathise with them. But HMV isn't HMV anymore. It's Sunrise using HMVs branding. I have no affinity with Sunrise and it's a depressing place to be these days. If it closed, so be it. Bye bye Sunrise, with is two year UK history. It's hardly devastating.
     
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  21. wallpaperman

    wallpaperman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Edinburgh
    I went down to HMV on Friday after I finished work. I only wanted one album, the new War on Drugs album on CD.

    Cost me £11.99 it did. I was appalled at this, particularly as it would have cost me £10.99 on Amazon. Oh and £3 or so for the postage.

    What appalled me more was that the staff at the till didn’t force me to buy any Milk Duds or crazy Korean soda pop. Felt properly let down by the customer service.
     
  22. Man at C&A

    Man at C&A Senior Member

    Location:
    England
    Oh don't be pedantic! There's more than HMV and Amazon and you know it. The CD prices are generally OK, but the vinyl prices are more often than not shocking.

    For your experience I can easily balance it out with £45+ vinyl albums that are nowhere near that anywhere else and 2 LPs for £40 being promoted like it's an incredible offer. The titles in that promotion are 2 for £30 or even £25 in many independent shops.

    Nobody has once complained about the customer service, which is exemplary. The shop staff don't set the prices or fill the store with expensive tacky sh!t.

    Enjoy your War On Drugs CD.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2021
  23. wallpaperman

    wallpaperman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Edinburgh
    What’s pedantic about wanting to buy an album by an artist I enjoy on the day it was released (still get a little thrill buying a new album on release day like I did when I was 13) and being able to get it for a fair price and at a good location for me?

    I only buy new releases on CD, I haven’t bought a new record this century I don’t think, so they could charge £50 for a new album on vinyl for all I care, some mugs will still buy it, especially if it’s on pretty splattered vinyl or they shove a sticker on it, proclaiming it ‘limited edition’.

    As for there being more than HMV/Fopp as far as bricks and mortar goes, I said a number of posts back that in Edinburgh there ain’t really. There is one shop, Assai, that is across the other side of Edinburgh that may have it but sure they are vinyl only. Avalanche in the centre of Edinburgh might have it on CD, but I rarely go into town at the moment with still working from home.
     
  24. Man at C&A

    Man at C&A Senior Member

    Location:
    England
    Nothing pedantic about buying a CD. As I said, enjoy it.

    The sarcasm loaded post was pedantic, you know that, it was seemingly an attempt just to contradict me. You bought a CD at the going rate. Well done. Enjoy it. Your negative opinion on vinyl isn't relevant here.

    I've only been to Edinburgh once and was surprised at how few music shops there are in the city centre. Like you, I much prefer buying stuff on day of release and am happy to pay a bit more for that.
     
    wallpaperman likes this.
  25. wallpaperman

    wallpaperman Forum Resident

    Location:
    Edinburgh
    Honestly, wasn’t getting at you in particular, more the general bashing of HMV that seems to go on.

    Bizarre on a forum filled with music nuts, you would think we would want every outlet possible to survive/thrive, and we can make our own choices about which ones to shop at or not.
     
    Lost In The Flood and Man at C&A like this.

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