Lyra Delos Phono Cartridge Questions

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by avanti1960, Apr 2, 2021.

  1. Slippers-on

    Slippers-on Forum Resident

    Location:
    St.Louis Mo.
    The Sumiko Sterling was like that when I first installed it in the high frequencies. It was like "hey see how bright I can be"! That was with a Warm, slightly dark Marantz Reference amp made to sound like tubes and a tubed phono amp with wide open ceramic tweeters. But I knew after a good run in it would settle down...and it did. I think you should be ok after it gets done doing what it does. Every cartridge, new goes through the changes whatever it may be. I can't imaging its going to continue to be emphasized as if the upper mid frequencies are made to be much more so than the rest of the sound....and besides......no one I know who has that cartridge and who really understands audio has a issue with the cartridge.

    But avanti,.....It could be that the Audio Technica Art carts are just your cup of tea, more so that the others cartridges/brands you've tried. :). Certainly nothing wrong with that! And I don't think you are one to succumb to peer pressure. So if its not you bro, its not you. It does seem we advocates all have maybe been trying to get you to really like the car, and me because its very akin in sound to my Sumiko Sterling....but still....perhaps more that we should.:)
     
    avanti1960 likes this.
  2. Slippers-on

    Slippers-on Forum Resident

    Location:
    St.Louis Mo.

    To try and break it down a bit more....

    [​IMG]


    MID-RANGE AND HIGHER MID RANGE (1000 HZ TO 5000 HZ)

    This is the most recognizable bandwidth of audio. Most vocals, guitar and more feature here. Whether you’re falling in love with A.R. Rahman’s 'Dil Se' or Michael Jackson’s 'Thriller', you get the meat of the most easily recognizable frequency here. Now, the next time you listen to a song, try and see if you can figure out and differentiate between the frequencies covered so far.

    Listening to Music - A Journey of Understanding Frequencies

    Bro...even this is disputable among listeners.
     
  3. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    Adjusted the loading to 100 ohms last night and first impressions are good.
     
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  4. Catcher10

    Catcher10 I like records, and Prog...duh

    Thanks Man! All I can say is that is where the Delos shines for me......Vocals, acoustic guitar, brass as I said those areas are always in my room and live feeling. Everything is disputable, I mean how can someone say "well at 750Hz it's not tipped, but at 1300Hz I hear some tipped up treble...."
    We are suppose to be listening to music not frequencies, it's the overall experience that I am looking for. Not a cart that does well for example in the treble range but fails in the Low Bass to Lower Mid ranges, how can you define such a cartridge? It should reproduce the whole frequency range very well.....I guess you could spend $12,000 and buy a Lyra Atlas Lambda. :cool:
     
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  5. Catcher10

    Catcher10 I like records, and Prog...duh

    If your phono cable is low capacitance like under 100pF, then I suspect you are not a fan of the openness of the cartridge in the 300-500 ohm range. All good, just part of finding out what we like in our gear and how it matches with our system chain.
     
  6. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    it is less than 100 pf, 90 pf in a short .6 meter length.
    i am trying 475 ohms now.
    after a morning of trying different cables and loads i have narrowed it down to the original cables and either 100, 200 or 475 ohms. noticeable differences but unfortunately no clear cut winner.
    the sound of the Delos for jazz brass instruments is so far not the best of the cartridges I own.
     
    Slippers-on likes this.
  7. Tommyboy

    Tommyboy Senior Member

    Location:
    New York
    I have an Atlas and absolutely love it. Is it warm sounding? Nope. It’s fast, dynamic, transparent, has excellent midrange and tracks like a beast. My amps are all tubes, so the Atlas fits my system perfectly.

    I don’t want a cart that colors the sound or is overly warm. I’ve never had any listening fatigue with the Atlas, only when I spin Beatles MoFi albums, but I had that issue with my prior cartridge, a Van Den Hul Frog.
     
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  8. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    i just listened to pat metheny 80/81 and the sound was phenomenal. the attack and impact of jack dejhonettes drum work was the best i have ever heard this recording sound. just spectacular sounding. quick and relentless but so well portrayed by this cartridge, instantaneous.
     
  9. Slippers-on

    Slippers-on Forum Resident

    Location:
    St.Louis Mo.
    Hahahahaha! Last night Catcher10 gave me an idea for a night cap listen...it was Eric Clapton Unplugged...so tonight I will share in your joy with Pat Metheny 80/81 and yes another shot of Single Malt to boot!.....and by the way Dewey Redman, who plays Tenor Sax on that record is one of my favorite sax players. Loved his work with Keith Jarret during the late 70's into the 80's. Oh...hope the Delos works out for you, little bro!
     
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  10. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    thanks man ! tonight its clapton for me, unfortunately the CD version but the sound and music are 10s! peace.
     
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  11. Catcher10

    Catcher10 I like records, and Prog...duh

    I was at 121 ohms on the Nova II for awhile, but was using a very high cap Morrow Audio cable like 500pF. Did not know that, bought an AQ phono cable at well under 100pF and set loading to 475 ohms and that was utter night and day difference regarding resolution, dynamics and presence. This setting matches up with the Lyra recommendations and what JCarr explains what will happen, so for me it works almost perfectly.
     
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  12. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    can you please let us know which AQ phono cable you used? they don't mention capacitance in their literature. thanks.
     
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  13. Slippers-on

    Slippers-on Forum Resident

    Location:
    St.Louis Mo.
    AQ Cougar phono Cables.
     
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  14. Catcher10

    Catcher10 I like records, and Prog...duh

    You have to go into their US Price Book. Page 29 is Tonearm Cables. Wildcat and Cougar are less than 65pF/1.5m, LeoPard and WEL Signature are less than 56pF/1.2m. I use the Cougar model...........
    https://www.audioquest.com/resource/1278/AQ-US-Retail-Price-Book.pdf
     
    avanti1960 likes this.
  15. Catcher10

    Catcher10 I like records, and Prog...duh

    I also have the original CD version, very good but does not have the vibrancy of my LP version.
     
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  16. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    listening to your guy dizzy reece playing lights out on andrew hill passong ships !
     
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  17. Slippers-on

    Slippers-on Forum Resident

    Location:
    St.Louis Mo.
    Love Dizzy Reece!
     
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  18. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    i added the ortofon cadenza blue back in the mix for a quick reality check vs. the lyra delos.
    what a surprise, it sounded flat, dull and lifeless compared to the delos. and i used to love the sound of this cartridge! very narrow and recessed sounding. smooth and inoffensive but no color ar all.
    the delos sounds so colorful and dynamic in comparison. not even close, quite a shocker and not what i expected.
     
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  19. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    last night i was playing a new tone poet art blakey record witch doctor. the sound was quite bad, rough and edgy, distorted trumpet, i was not happy. swapped out the cartridge, preamp tubes, etc. nothing helped until i lowered the phono preamp gain to 52db down from 58db. 58db is a touch on the high side for a .6mv MC but 52db is more than a touch too low. however it sounds fantastic, my linestage has enough gain to more than compensate. much better now.
     
  20. ggergm

    ggergm Flibbertijibbet

    Location:
    Minnesota
    You were overloading the input on your preamp. That record probably was cut hot. When the cartridge's output was boosted 58dB, your preamp couldn't handle the signal being fed into it. The result is clipping and distortion.

    I had a similar situation with a Lyra Delos and a Parasound JC3. My solution was to build a audiophile quality 14dB attenuator as the gain isn't adjustable with that preamp. Here's the info on my problem and the attenuator.

    The Delos puts out .6mv of output, which is on the high side for a LOMC. You've got to be very careful with your gain after that, as you have discovered.
     
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  21. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    Final lesson learned about the Delos! This is one picky mofo !
    i emailed the sales team of some cables that i had laying around and found my set of chord c line are 50pf per meter. i was shooting for 50pf per some recommendations from @Catcher10 and others.
    installed the cables and set the loading to 475 ohms and presto- the sound is perfect!
    cleaner, smoother, more natural, no ringing at all. i cant believe the difference!
    much better than the 105 pf cables i had that needed 200 ohms to sound best.
    im out and back to more listening! sonny rollins saxaphone colossus. peace.
     
  22. Greenmonster2420

    Greenmonster2420 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Central Ohio
    That’s great to hear. Those cables seem extremely reasonable price wise - I may have to try out a pair when my Delos returns from Lyra for a tuning. I’ve got my SoundSmith Aida running in the mean time. It’s a phenomenal cartridge in its own right, but I do find myself missing the Delos. The Aida does some stuff better, but if I had to pick one the Lyra would be my choice. Such a great cartridge.
     
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  23. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    I can believe how good this cartridge sounds now!!!!!!! man it is good.
    yes they are reasonable. i bought them a long time ago based on the what hifi review. they never fit in well as interonnects and were sitting in a drawer. i was prepared to spend on some good low cap cables when the e mail from chord sales came back saying the were 50pf per meter. gave them a shot and i cant believe it.
    transformed my turntable into my best sounding source. shocked while listening as i type this reply..
     
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  24. avanti1960

    avanti1960 Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Chicago metro, USA
    summarizing my recipe for lyra delos bliss
    52db gain
    level headshell at 1.75g vtf
    50 pf chord c lne interconnect to phono preamp, 1 meter.
    475 ohms
    tinkering time is over....
     
  25. psulioninks

    psulioninks Forum Resident

    Location:
    KC Chiefs Kingdom
    What capacitance is your phono stage providing at its output to your cables?
     

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