Marantz SA-10 CD/SACD player

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Bill Mac, Jul 12, 2019.

  1. Litejazz53

    Litejazz53 Wishing You A Crystal Clear Digital Christmas!

    I have the SA-10 as well, BUT, I have never played and don't own any homemade CDs. My question to you is, when you play normal CDs or SACDs do you still have the TAC noise? With standard CDs or SACDs, mine is whisper quiet, no sound at all.
     
  2. Pjotr into Music

    Pjotr into Music Don't be afraid to play this LOUD

    Regarding 1. : I have a Marantz SA11s3 and there is indeed a small "tac" when I start playing a CD. Doesn't bother me at all.
     
  3. Litejazz53

    Litejazz53 Wishing You A Crystal Clear Digital Christmas!

    But, that would not be normal, to have a "tac" sound before each track or even at the very beginning of the CD, it's not a matter of does it bother you or not, you should not be hearing any noises at all at the beginning of the CD or SACD or between tracks, something is not right.
     
  4. Pjotr into Music

    Pjotr into Music Don't be afraid to play this LOUD

    To be precise: with me it's a small sound in the player before playing. Not through the speakers. I burn flacs also and have no sounds between tracks.
     
  5. Litejazz53

    Litejazz53 Wishing You A Crystal Clear Digital Christmas!

    And, it's made in Japan, makes a BIG difference, good for you! :righton:
     
    warp2600 likes this.
  6. warp2600

    warp2600 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hungary
    What you hear is most probably a relay switch switching on/off a circuit. I have got an SA14 player and it makes that sound when I press play and I think, the sound is there again when the program on the disc is over and playing stops.
    I am sure that it is a circuit switched on and off via a relay. Also, when I play a file in USB DAC mode, the 'TAC' sound is there when playing the file is over (only when I play individual files one by one). When a whole program is played and the file player sends the files one after another automatically, there is no TAC sound of course. Also, if the sampling rate changes between files, you hear the sound again.
     
    Bill Mac and F1nut like this.
  7. fromparis

    fromparis New Member

    Location:
    france
    @Litejazz53, yes the sound "tac" is heard with every CD I have not only with homemade. @Pjotr into Music, yes it's small sound at the beginning and at the end of CD. It doesn't bother me too at the beginning but when it comes with every track ( not for CD I precise only with mp3/flac/dsd) it becomes annoying. You are right the sound comes from the player not from speaker. @warp2600 , I believe your analysis is right. I agree with you.
    I asked my dealer who will ask Marantz. I'm waiting for Marantz response.
     
  8. dougotte

    dougotte Vague Waste of Space-Time

    Location:
    Washington, DC
    Please keep us posted. I've owned two Sony SA-CD players, the latter of which is the 5400ES that I'm still using. Neither made a sound similar to what you describe. I'm thinking about buying a Ruby just in case the 5400 dies, but I wouldn't accept that kind of sound, even if it's minor.
     
  9. fromparis

    fromparis New Member

    Location:
    france
    I have Marantz response. It's a normal situation because of transistors muting they said. So nothing to do, I have to listen music files from my laptop connected to the USB port. Except this little annoying thing I have to say that the SA 10 is a great gear because the sound from this machine is really good. The only thing to know according to me is to set up the feature according to what you listen for exemple for CD I put the dither feature at 0 and the Noisesharper at 3th-0 and change this when I listen DSD files to have the best sound ( for me of course it depends on everyone taste).
    But I can find what option to parameter to find a pleasant sound to me.
     
  10. Omnio

    Omnio _ _ _ ____ ____ _ _ _

    Location:
    L.A.
    I've been so tempted to get this player and if I didn't spend some massive $ on my current player and its upgrade, I'd have pulled the trigger on a Marantz unit already. I have many pre-emphais compact discs though and I wonder if this exquisite player can play back both sub-coded and TOC pre-emphasis cds? What about HDCD?
     
  11. Litejazz53

    Litejazz53 Wishing You A Crystal Clear Digital Christmas!

    The SA-10 does not have the old Pacific Microsonics HDCD chip, I'm pretty sure it's no longer made, however the way this machine handles CD's, HDCD, and SACD's as well as all the digital inputs reflects the newest and most advanced digital processing. I am going to copy and paste the information on this player's digital conversion process, which simply confused me, but hey, this thing is beyond anything I have ever owned, just a beautifully designed player and this champagne color, so very nice, total class, a top shelf piece of equipment indeed.

    Ok, here is the technical information:

    However, the SA-10 goes so much further than just disc playback: it's also a fully-functional digital-to-analog converter for music stored on a home computer, as well as having conventional digital inputs for existing source components. Those conventional inputs - optical and coaxial - can handle files at up to 192kHz/24bit, but in addition the player's digital input section includes a USB-B asynchronous input for the direct connection of a computer, and this is compatible with PCM and DXD music files at up to 384kHz/32bit, as well as DSD2.8MHz, DSD5.6MHz and DSD11.2MHz.

    That means the SA-10 is not only equipped to handle all the commonly-available high-resolution audio formats now sold by online retailers, but also the ultra-high-resolution files becoming available from a number of specialist labels and outlets. In other words, the new player is entirely futureproof.

    What's more, the digital input section is completely isolated, to avoid any electrical noise from connected components - a particular problem when computers are used as a source - from finding its way into the signal-path.

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]More than just a DAC

    CD players (and indeed amplifiers) with built-in DACs usable for computer audio are nothing new, and neither is DSD capability on such devices. Indeed, the Marantz range already has several CD/SA-CD models so equipped. However, the SA-10 takes things further - just as it features an all-new disc transport mechanism, so the digital to analog conversion has also been subject to a radical rethink, taking full advantage of the 1-bit conversion technology found in past flagship Marantz players, and incorporating brand-new filtering and upconversion to take advantage of this simple, but elegant solution.


    [​IMG]Marantz Musical Mastering: MMM-Stream and MMM-Conversion

    DSD is at the heart of the way the SA-10 handles digital audio: PCM and DXD inputs are all upconverted to DSD at 11.2MHz using the proprietary MMM-Stream converter within the player, and then the high-frequency signal produced is processed by the unique MMM-Conversion stage, used in place of a conventional DAC, to produce the analog output.

    The MMM-Stream section of the process replaces the oversampling filters normally used in digital to analog conversion, and allows the implementation of the Marantz Musical Mastering filtering. These filters - one providing a slow roll-off and very short impulse response, the other offering the option of a medium roll-off with short pre-ringing and longer post-ringing - are essentially the same as those found in the Marantz SA-11 disc player and NA-11 network music player, but here they're implemented at a much higher oversampling rate, thanks to that upconversion to DSD11.2.

    In fact, two system clocks are used, to ensure the most accurate upconversion of the incoming signal, whether its from disc or the digital inputs: the 44.1kHz of CD, and its multiples - 88.2kHz, 176.4kHz and so on - are upsampled to 11.2896MHz, while 48kHz and its multiples are taken up to 12.288MHz. This is done for maximum precision, and to avoid any need for sample rate conversion of the kind were the system to have to convert, say, 192kHz audio to DSD12.2MHz.

    In addition, all of this conversion is now done in Digital Signal Processing with 32-bit floating-point precision, rather than the 24-bit integer method used in such systems in the past.

    Combining this with the reduction to a 1-bit signal straight after the oversampling filter and Sigma Delta Modulation allows a pure DSD-standard signal to be passed to the conversion section in the form of a very high-frequency stream of pulses, requiring only a very high-quality low-pass filter to remove all the superfluous high frequencies and pass the purest possible audio to the player's output stage.

    So why develop all this in-house? The Marantz engineering team says that, as ever, extensive listening sessions gave the reasons: We found big sound quality differences when PCM signals got converted to DSD outside of a conventional DAC and then fed to the DSD input of the conventional DAC. The conclusion of our finding was that for best sound quality we have to do the conversion ourselves.

    "This experience led us to evaluate all kind of SDM structures and optimise this to achieve the best sound quality."

    The same thinking informed the design of the DSD-to-analog filter itself, which feeds into the familiar Marantz HDAM (Hyper Dynamic Amplifier Modules) in the output stage, here used in dual-differential configuration for optimal sound quality.

    [​IMG]

    In the same way, even the headphone output on the player is optimized: like the HDAMs, it's built entirely from discrete components, rather than using simpler 'amp on a chip' technology, for the very best sound quality.


    [​IMG]Built to Perform

    Like the partnering PM-10 integrated amplifier, the SA-10 is constructed to the highest possible standards, with a double-layered copper-plated chassis for excellent rejection of mechanical and electrical interference, and casework constructed from thick non-magnetic aluminium panels and 5mm thick top lid. Both products also sit on aluminium machining feet.



    That may all seem very complex, as well as making it clear just how much work has gone into the design of this player, but in essence at the heart of the SA-10 is a digital-to-analog solution that's as elegant as it is innovative, and developed by the Marantz engineering team for one very simple reason:

    'Because Music Matters' :edthumbs:
     
  12. Omnio

    Omnio _ _ _ ____ ____ _ _ _

    Location:
    L.A.
    Yep, I've already that that in a magazine, thanks. Uprezing everything to quad DSD is a concept I quite like and I'd buy this player cold, without checking it out first. Who knows what the future brings.
     
  13. TarnishedEars

    TarnishedEars Forum Resident

    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    FWIW: PS Audio's Direct Stream DAC upsamples everything to 20x DSD. And by using an Oppo 103 as a transport for it, virtually every media imaginable may be both played as well as fully decoded.
     
  14. teag

    teag Forum Resident

    Location:
    Colorado
    The SA-KI Ruby sounds fantastic and is a lot less money. I really enjoy mine.
     
  15. Bill Mac

    Bill Mac Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    So. ME USA
    I was interested in the SA-KI Ruby. But found an open box SA-10 at Safe and Sound for less than the SA-KI Ruby. They are an authorized Marantz dealer and the SA-10 came with a full manufactures warranty. The SA-10 was in as new condition and packed as if it was brand new. I checked the Safe and Sound site and currently there are no open box SA-10 units available. If interested I'd suggest contacting Safe and Sound to see if and when any would be available. Ask for Dave as he was great to deal with.

    Home Audio Speakers, A/V Receivers, Amplifiers, A/V Components
     
    clhboa likes this.
  16. lapepalz

    lapepalz Well-Known Member

    I advised Bill to do the same, and I received an SA-10 in perfect condition, I only had a finger marked on the front.

    and it cost me a little more than half the price than its original price

    I also bought two parasound items and they were almost new. Dave is very reliable and kind in his attention.
     
  17. Brother_Rael

    Brother_Rael Forum Resident

    Location:
    Scottish Borders
    Not these days IMO. Other countries churning out great gear that's well manufactured, reliable to a fault and sound great.

    My Cambridge 752BD is five years old, played incessantly and performs as good as ever.

    If the standard is set, then QA and manufacturing aren't an issue. If not, then it doesn't matter where its built. You'll have a problem.
     
  18. lonelysea

    lonelysea Forum Crustacean

    The SA-10 has fully balanced XLR outputs, the Ruby does not. That’d be a deal killer for me.
    Very impressive machine.
     
  19. teag

    teag Forum Resident

    Location:
    Colorado
    True. For me, CD is 2nd to LPs so this is not important, even if there is a sound difference.

    Off topic, but I have done XLR vs. RCA comparisons using Kimber and Tara Labs cables. Small difference in sound and debatable which is better - both sound great.
     
  20. lonelysea

    lonelysea Forum Crustacean

    Yeah, I’ve compared the two as well but felt the balanced XLR sounded better. Some say it’s because the XLR has more gain (louder) which might be true. I think the cables and connectors have less to do with it than the benefits of the balanced architecture/circuitry.
     
    teag likes this.
  21. clhboa

    clhboa Forum Resident

    I've been enjoying mine as well. I've had it a little over a month now. I think for newer masterings I prefer filter 2 but for bass shy 80's discs I like to use filter 1. Built like a tank. My wife about had a heart attack when she found out what it cost. She got over it rather quickly though.
     

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