Marantz TT-15S1 as complement to SL1200-GR? Or redundant?

@wbass, with the money from the return of the Marantz table, you could buy a Graham Slee Reflex M + PSU or Accession M. If it were my money, that's what I'd be looking at. Unlike other companies, you could audition both of these pieces before deciding to buy.

I'm not automatically convinced that LOMC is the way to go for everyone. I've heard some amazing LOMCs that could pull an incredible amount of detail out of the groove but those cost thousands of dollars ($3K and $10K respectively). In the sub-$1K category, there is no guarantee you'll get an improvement you like in subjective terms, and in pure objective performance terms (tracking, stereo separation, etc.) there isn't really any improvement compared to a top performing high output cartridge. Basically, it'll be different but not necessarily better and there are other tradeoffs as well.

At the end of the day it's your money, just my 2 cents.

Re: your headshell issue, you might want to look at something like this:

LP Gear ZUPREME 10G Headshell made in Japan

The azimuth adjustment screw is much larger than the Technics one and presumably should be easier to use.

My Yamamoto HS had a very tiny azimuth adjustment screw like on the Technics HS and it did take a little work to get it to loosen. The bigger adjustment screw like on the LPGear (most likely made by Jelco) headshell might be easier for you to work with.

 

Besides the Elevator, you can also buy an MC only phono stage from GS. The company's philosophy is that MM and MC should be kept separate. The Elevator is there for folks that need the ability to run both high and low output carts from the same phono stage (usually cart junkies I guess).

 

nice description! anything ever sound harsh or lacking refinement? i read a review that compressed recordings are unlistenably harsh. i'm going to demo them soon but there is nothing like long term experience.

 

OP, keep the Marantz, just to compare and contrast results between it and the Technics. It would make for a very credible review and only cost you $1200 to do it.

 

I say get rid of the Marantz while you can still get your money back. Use the
money for other upgrades to go with the Technics, it's a great table.

 

--Azimuth adjustment on the head shell: Looks like it can be done with stock GR head shell, might just require a bit more effort. I'm also looking into the Zupreme or Soundsmith head shells, which seem to allow much easier adjustment. Anyway, the cart basically sounds good for now. It just bugs me to see the azimuth slightly out of whack, and/or I'd like to keep tweaking the sound.

--Phono stages: Thanks for the recommendations! I like the idea of dedicated MM and MC stages, so perhaps I'll get a dedicated MC phono pre down the line if I add a LOMC cart. It's possible that--at some point, just not right now--I might run two tables, and it would be cool to have two separate phono pres.

That said, anyone have thoughts on the Lehmann Black Cube SE vs the Graham Slee Era Gold V? I'm still in my audition window.

--Marantz TT: I returned it yesterday! Oh, well, for now that seems like the best move. It looks cool as hell, but in the spirit of simplifying and avoiding redundant sidegrades, I'm going to concentrate on the 1200-GR for now. Thanks again for the advice on either side.

 

Not to turn this into a Klipsch thread, but... Hmm, that's possible, re: compressed recordings not sounding great. I sort of got the Forte's with an analog set-up in the mind, and to indulge a love of small group 60/70s jazz and other all-analog recordings. Not that they sound bad on more recent recordings or other genres.... That said, if I was deeper into hip-hop or electronic, I might not have gone with the Forte's. At least in my room, they're pretty forward sounding. Staging is not as good as a small monitor, but I wouldn't expect it to be. Where they seem to excel is with micro and macro dynamics. Individual instruments really pop out of the mix, but at the same time you also get a lot of nuance in vocal/horn performances. I suppose they're what people call "fast" speakers? Anyway, I find that very emotionally involving.

The Forte's are big and heavy, so obviously a bit of commitment, and they'd be useless in a small room. They're maybe pushing it in my medium room, but I'm still having a blast with them.

 

thanks for the slight off tangent. they look great IMHO.

 

To resurrect a dormant thread... I ended up finding a Marantz TT-15S1 for really cheap, less than half what they seem to go for new. It was an open box or a return or something, and the Virtuoso stylus was broken/missing, but I read up on replacing it with an AT95 stylus and thought I'd take a chance.

Everything arrived in more or less decent shape (more below), though the Virtuoso was rattling around in its box, and I was worried it would be internally damaged. But, after a surprisingly easy swap with a basic, $35 AT95E stylus, it appears to be playing just fine. The sound quality seems... pretty good!

Questions:

--I'm going to try a higher end AT95 stylus, probably the ATN95SA from LP Gear. If forum research is to be believed, the regular AT95E stylus is (unsurprisingly) a downgrade from the stock Virtuoso, and the ATN95SA is a decent upgrade (?). Anyone have experiences with either on the Clearaudio cart?

--The one thing I haven't been able to replace/repair thus far (though I think it will be fairly easy) is the second ground wire, which runs from the base of the spindle/bearing housing. It arrived with the connector torn off, and I don't have the soldering equipment/skills to repair. I ordered a generic, Technics-style replacement, though not sure if it will fit? After playing a few records, I'm not noticing any hum from not having the second ground wire hooked up, so perhaps it's not necessary. What's the idea behind the second ground, anyway--to kill any static buildup from the spindle?

Notes on the Marantz thus far (if of use to anyone else considering this TT):

--I'm pretty happy thus far, esp. for how cheap I got it. Many on this forum steered me toward the 1200-GR, and I'm really glad I got the Technics. I'm loving its solidity, easy of use, and super solid speed stability. But, after also researching the Marantz, I remained curious and figured it would be a good way to play around with a decent quality belt drive and further educate myself about TTs and set up generally. So far, so good. I figure, too, that if I step up to a higher quality belt drive in the future, I can port over the Satisfy tonearm (which goes for far more than what I paid for the whole turntable) or use it as a second arm.

Pluses: Plinth and platter are well made, heavy, and very cool looking. Arm seems solid, too. Cues nicely, moves smoothly. Some have noted that the motor is easy to shift and bump up against the plinth, but thus far, it's staying put for me. An elegant looking, well-made TT on the whole.

Possible minuses:

--Balancing the arm seems less intuitive than other TTs I've owned (Debut Carbon, Music Hall Ikura, 1200-GR). Because the Satisfy arm tends to get caught up on the little circle of rubber that serves as its latch, it's difficult (for me anyway) to tell if it's floating or not. Anyone have any pointers here? I think I got it in the ballpark of being balanced before I dialed in the tracking force, but it's rather hard to be sure. Perhaps the solution here is simply to get a tracking force scale?

--As others have reported, the belt can be finicky to install and can slip off the platter. After a few frustrated attempts, I ended up flipping over the platter and installing it the other way round--there's no indication which side is up--and that helped the belt ride a little higher and stay on. (Is there a right side up?) Generally, the belt seems to ride a little low on the platter, but a quick look at Google Images shows that this is true for others who own the Marantz. This is perhaps not the TT for folks who do a lot of switching between 33 1/2 and 45, but maybe the belt will stay from now on and not get all fouled up with the oily spindle like it did on my first, argh, ten attempts. Oh, and the belt takes a couple seconds to catch when you start the motor, but after that plays just fine. You can hear the faintest motor noise, but it quickly disappears under the music.

These are small minuses on the whole, and they seem far outweighed by the many pluses. Thus far, this strikes me as a lot of turntable for the money. Next to the Ikura, which I had for a couple weeks, its speed stability seems notably better, and it's build quality inspires more confidence. Next to the Technics, it suffers slightly in comparison, but the Technics is more expensive.

 

If you go Sutherland, you wont go back. You may eventually go up the line, but you won't change brands. Do your system and ears a favor, and take avanti1960's advice.

 

I'll certainly check out Sutherland when I get a chance!

 

All his stages share a sound, from the cheapest, to the most expensive. The big buck stuff is state of the art.

 

Get a tracking force scale - they’re cheap and give you more confidence that you’re dialed in vs relying on the fairly imprecise markings on the counterweight.

I have several styluses of different types I can try, but I’m not likely to compare them since it requires removing the cart. Those tonearm wires are so fine and delicate, it’s stressful to remove them from the cart and plug them back in. That, to me, is the one disadvantage to the table. Even though it might have added an additional connection point, it would be a reasonable trade off to me to be able to switch carts without risking damaging the tonearm wires.

I think it’s an awesome table though and looks classy and modern. I never had any probs with belt falling off. A little slippage at first, but that went away pretty early on. It’s been flawless for me.

Also, that second ground wire seems not essential. I’ve alternatively had it on and off and never was able to tell a difference.

 

Cheers, Captouch. Appreciate your experience. Yeah, I'm not going to do a ton of cart/stylus swapping either. Just wanted to test with the cheaper AT stylus to make sure the cartridge actually worked before dropping $170 on the nicer stylus. Agree about the small wires feeling a bit fragile.

Was just sharing those notes about the belt slipping in case others come here researching the table. It was pretty annoying until I thought to flip the platter.

 

You bought back the Marantz you returned?

That'a a good one!