Saw three shows on this tour myself. Dream Theater (with Charlie) opened the first show. Tyson-Buster Douglas opened the second and I forget who opened the 3rd show I saw. Still remember Hogarth climbing the stage cabinets. Guess he was trying to find his style.
I never got in to discuss Seasons End Band finding where to look in terms of songwriting. The loss of Fish is so obvious just from the master - it's not so much Hogarth's vocals. There's some stuff here and there that shows it's not quite a fully formed new band, but it's rather good anyway Best tracks are Easter, Seasons End, and Berlin - the shorter pieces on here are probably the worst, however it didn't take long for them to do both well. Even with that said, it's not ever bad - only a bit not quite there. Glasgow I just heard a few of the tracks tonight - however, I was surprised how well Hogarth does the Fish stuff, and he seems confident this early, definitely interesting at least if not a great live comp from that period Holidays in Eden I don't know a ton of the music - but, in particular, Splintering Heart is killer, plus Cover My Eyes is great - like I said above, the short songs would get there soon enough. When your worst LP is this so far, you're doing pretty well - the title track is kind of dire, either way. You can tell the band is still not entirely convinced about their sound, but before you know it, they put out a record that is probably one of the best concept pieces ever - over 10 years later.
I totally missed Glasgow. A quick check on ebay, Discogs & Amazon shows it's a bit pricwy for something I'm not real excited about. Per Discogs it's on German label Edel. Thanks for mentioning it!
earMUSIC is a sublabel/division/whatever of edel records. I got all ten Racket live albums they reissued close to original release, some even in store. It was a nice series. Of course being limited to 5000 each, I knew I should get them quickly... I'll put them all up when we get to them chronologically, not sure about other Racket stuff except when it really has something interesting on it. I've also started reviewing Holidays in Eden, but not finished yet.
I've edited all the Discogs entries and now we have this nice overview over the live albums series: 10 Limited Live Albums
Holidays in Eden When I saw this album in a store (the 2CD remaster), I was a bit hesitant knowing that it isn't considered one of Marillion's finest, especially by the prog brigade. But it turned out to be much more to my liking than I expected; yes, there are a couple of relatively simple, poppy tunes on there, but they're well-written and overall, I think this is still a very good record. Some of the songs do sound better live, and I can understand Mark Kelly's frustration with not being allowed to develop his keyboard parts more... but again, this is Marillion being concise and accessible, and it works. Splintering Heart: Amazing opener, and I can really identify with the lyrics Hogarth, just like Roger Waters, keeps changing back and forth between the first- and third-person narrative, and it adds to the feeling of confusion. I think the long intro works really well - the earlier live arrangement is not varied enough IMO. Hogarth sings with full throttle, and Rothery turns in not one but two amazing guitar solos, while Mark Kelly makes do with a relatively simple organ bed that's surprisingly effective. Again, great track to open an album with. Cover My Eyes: If this track were representative of this album, I'd understand the detractors. This is definitely a bit too commercial for me. As a pop song, it's still OK, but nothing that Marillion should've performed as much as they did (although I can understand why; the chorus lends itself to sing-a-longs). Its saving grace is the middle part, which is tastefully developed. The Party: Marillion quickly return to the epic values that are their true forte. The lyric is a coming-of-age story with not much in the way of moral finger-wagging, just a matter-of-fact description of what happened at the party. Although it's noteworthy that once again we have a female protagonist here, as with "Splintering Heart", pointing towards the next record. ("Chelsea Monday" also springs to mind, despite being from Fish's pen.) The middle section is absolutely unreal - Pete's bass, man!! Love how Ian drags the tempo, this is something he'll employ again to great effect on the next album. No One Can: This is a bit too sappy for me. Thankfully, it's the last song in that "too pop" category for me on this album. Holidays in Eden: I quite like this rocky track - it's a bit less obvious than "Hooks in You" but still very much with mass appeal. Should've been a single, really. The chorus is radio- and stadium-compatible. Nice organ solo, we rarely get that but as much as I love Rothery he doesn't need to solo on every song (although he does get his moment at the end too). Thanks Mark! My favourite moment is the rhythm change on the outro. Dry Land: I know this is technically a cover, coming from Hogarth's pre-Marillion band How We Live... but it's absolutely drop-dead gorgeous!! The vocal is amazing, and so is the guitar solo. Why this wasn't at least as big a hit as "Kayleigh" is beyond me. Waiting to Happen: I don't think this is particularly good sequencing, two reflective ballads in one go tend to make the album lose steam, and "Waiting to Happen" suffered in my appreciation as a result. It took me a while to warm up to it, but now I think it's really good too. The chorus, once again, is a thing of beauty. This Town: We need something rocky now, and we get something that sounds very much unlike Marillion's rock tracks up to this point. This is the beginning of a trend that goes through later songs such as "Paper Lies" and ends up on albums like Radiation and Anoraknophobia. I think it's good, but slightly perfunctory, although Hogarth shows that he has dirty rock shouting in his portfolio too ("easy heels, greasy wheels"). The main point is that it's the first part of a trilogy... The Rake's Progress: Much more typical Marillion, could be straight out of Clutching at Straws. Reflective interlude. Great Rothery arpeggios and spacey sounds by Mark Kelly. 100 Nights: No discussion about this one - Marillion in top form! This is a slow burner with two chords in the best Pink Floyd manner, with Hogarth really getting in the spirit and absolutely living the lyric (with THAT twist at the end... what a punchline). And Rothery absolutely tears me apart with that solo. Omigosh! Love the little "subway" reprise of "This Town" at the end too, a real downer but hey, this is Marillion. This is what they're good at. I'll need to revisit the b-sides but I still think Holidays in Eden is far from a bad album - a bit softer than usual, but class songwriting all around.
I largely know what I'm going to say, but as it's been close to 20 years, I want to listen to the album twice bwfore making many comments. One comment I will make: this has by far the best mastering of any of the 2 cd remasters that I have revisited.
Agree, it sounds very good despite Peter Mew's unbelievable comments in the booklet about removing hiss, then bringing up the treble to make it sound less dull, then removing hiss again... It doesn't hurt that technically, this is a very good production - maybe a bit too far on the clean pop side, but those kinds of productions lend themselves well to remastering because it's hard to do anything wrong, really.
Maybe that's why the first and only trip peaked while I was listening to Cover my eyes Or maybe I literally felt like Hogarth's falsetto in the chorus but physically
Holidays is very underated, no idea why many people don’t like it, there is some great songs. So Cover My Eyes is commercial sounding- and Kayleigh wasn’t?! My favourites have to be Waiting to Happen and Splintering Heart. Incidentally, I bought the HIE live cd, I was gutted it won’t play for some reason. I will certainly be be buying the deluxe set when it is released. I also love Dry Land.
That's a shame I actually think that overall it's better than the studio album, although they fluff a transition in "No One Can". Forgot to mention - When Marillion played the entire album live at the Weekend in 2011, they chose a track sequence that's different from both UK and US versions: Splintering Heart Cover My Eyes The Party No One Can Waiting to Happen Holidays in Eden Dry Land This Town/The Rake's Progress/100 Nights ... and the two b-sides as encores. I think this sequence (basically just "Waiting to Happen" earlier in the set) is worth trying out for programming the album.
Yeah I bough the live cd twice, but neither would spin? I may try and get a download of it. That running order looks a lot better, I wonder if they will re-sequence it for the upcoming deluxe edition?
Have you tried it in different players? I've found edel's CDs are a bit thicker than some others, so my battered old laptop drive was having some issues, but eventually I could rip them all. Had no issues playing them. If I had the necessary bandwidth, I could send you my ripped files...
Holidays In Eden As I wrote above it's probably been 2 decades since I played this. I played CD #1 twice (Remastered UK album) & CD #2 once (2 USA "Bonus tracks", + demos etc) As I mentioned above, this is by far the best sounding of the first seven 2 cd remasters (I count Lorley in the 7, as the packaging goes with the rest of the series). I suspect the reason I enjoyed this more than Season's was the mastering. The albums aren't all that dissimilar, but Season's (& the rest of the series) is so brittle sounding that they cause my entire body to get tense, which kinda kills the enjoyment. If only I'd realized that before I replaced all of my original Marillion cd's............ Through the early '00's I bought all the record labels snake oil, even when my ears told me otherwise. I. Was. Really. STOOPID. This album is nice background music for me. As I said I wouldn't mention again (I lied, but I really will try not to say this about every album left, though I do feel this way about all of them); the problem for me with the post Fish era is the songwriting. To me it's kind of Easy Listening Prog. I enjoy them all; but few of the songs stick out for me, even with the superb musicianship. Other than Easter & Cannibal Surfer Babe, I couldn't name a single H era song from memory that feels special to me. Several songs do, but I can't remember the songs names. Interesting as I don't have that experience with Rothery's solo albums. At any rate, while listening I wrote down my favorites from Holidays. They are: Cover My Eyes The Party No One Can Dry Land And again, the sound quality for once is acceptable. My copy is a 2 cd edition on IRS USA; I don't know if that makes a difference.
Holidays in Eden...man, I was so disappointed when this came out! The second album with the new singer and a turn into a very "commercial" musical area. Fortunately, they corrected this "mistake" with the next album... BUT: Today, I think HiE is a very strong album featuring lots of really good songs. I would even call it a "classic" album.
If you do that, you must also count Recital of the Script and The Thieving Magpie though, as those were reissued at the same time as Loreley, and all three came out several years after the initial wave of 2CDs (Then there was Real to Reel/Brief Encounter, too... which was apparently just level-shifted?) I find it interesting that you talk about easy listening but then quote those songs as your favourites, when they're probably the most simplistic on here. Well, maybe not The Party but even that has a pretty basic core. Not being judgmental, just observing. I found that I need to live with some of the Marillion songs for a while - especially the Hogarth years. It gets better with repeated listens... for me.
So, there's a lot of extra tracks related to the "Holidays in Eden" era... I've made my own playlist, smashing the remaster bonus disc and the respective tracks from the Singles set together. Excuse the sequencing. Sympathy (non-LP single): I've known the original by Rare Bird before I heard Marillion's version, but I gotta say the boys did a wonderful job with this song. I know Hogarth has later said that the arrangement is too heavy, but I like it a lot. How Can It Hurt (b-side): I think this is an absolute barnstormer! Way too good to languish as a b-side. A Collection (b-side): Nice little acoustic ditty with a slightly disturbing lyric. Cover My Eyes (Acoustic): I don't know. Still not doing it for me. Very bare bones. Sympathy (Acoustic): Better, although I still think I prefer the more epic single version. But I understand that this is the way the band themselves prefer to perform it these days (see "Singles Night"). Sugar Mice (Acoustic, not on Holidays remaster): Nice alternative, but again I'm not really getting much out of it. It's just half the song... but nice fretless bass by Pete. I Will Walk on Water (5" mix, not on HIE remaster): This is another post-Holidays track with some interesting atmospheres and a bizarre lyric apparently based on a real experience of Steve Hogarth (!!). Not bad, not really amazing either, but interesting to listen to. I Will Walk on Water (Alternative mix): I don't get why this version was included on the 2CD, when it just sounds unfinished. Splintering Heart (live, early arrangement): I don't like this nearly as much as the finished version. That guitar "loop" going on all the time gets on my nerve after a while. Other than that, it's pretty good. You Don't Need Anyone (demo): Kind of a Market Square Heroes / Status Quo shuffle vibe, could've been a big hit actually - I can hear this right in the company of a lot of late 80s early 90s AOR pop radio staples. The keyboard preset is a bit odd! Moles Club Demos (No One Can, The Party, This Town, Waiting to Happen): These are all pretty close to the finished versions, but more raw and sometimes with more interesting keyboard sounds. If you think Holidays in Eden sounds too polished, you might want to check these out. There is much more guitar on the intro of "This Town" - which was later replaced by the actual siren field recordings. The ending is also much bluesier than the finished version, which has a typical Marillion keyboard/guitar duet leading into the next track instead. Here it's still a standalone track. "Waiting to Happen" (with a vocal very low in the mix) still has some different and missing lyrics... Eric: I think I have to see this to fully get it. Apparently they sampled themselves and Hogarth then triggered those samples with the midi-gloves... and then we get a nice jam developing out of that. What shows is that Hogarth, unlike Fish, could really give off musical impulses too, which would have some bearing on Marillion's future course. The Epic (Fairground): Now Wash Your Hands/100 Nights/Waiting on the Man This is a good insight into how Marillion tend to write songs... they often use various sections and put them together. And often, the finished result is a different combination from what was initially tried out. The first part is one of those ideas that had been kicking around for a while - it would end up on Brave, then it morphs into what would become "100 Nights" with a different lyric. The last is something they wrote when Fish was still in the band, but it was never properly finished! It's a shame because it's really classic Marillion and goes into a great Rothery solo. Dry Land (7" Edit): I guess one problem with this song is that it was a bit too long for a radio single. But the edit doesn't do it any favours, the intro sounds too rushed now... Cover My Eyes (Mike Stone Remix): I'm still not a fan of the song, but the remix improves it a bit to my ears - it sounds a bit snappier. There were also lots of live tracks on the respective singles, including a complete stripped-down set (well, 23 minutes, I guess they played more...) recorded at the Borderline: Holloway Girl (a beautiful ethereal version) Waiting to Happen (pretty close to the LP version, but with the first chorus omitted... classic trick, eh!) Easter (basically the first half) Sugar Mice (as the acoustic version mentioned above, but with a lot of audience participation) After Me (close to the LP version but without the big climax) The King of Sunset Town (a very abbreviated, simplified version) Substitute (a fun The Who cover - Hogarth mixes up the last two lines, but it's overall pretty close to the original) ...which is a pretty good Marillion unplugged 'album' with almost no songs appearing on later acoustic releases. It's devoid of electric guitar and drums, but not of synths, so not fully "unplugged". "This is supposed to be casual" says Hogarth charmingly. Also, there's two live versions of "Kayleigh" and one of "Dry Land", all very nice although Hogarth singing Fish songs is always a bit of a strange feeling. "Dry Land" is great though.
I'd not heard this early version of Splintering Heart until I heard about it through both this discussion, and a mention on Steve Hogarth's 'The Corona Diaries' podcast. I agree, it isn't as good as the finished version on Holidays in Eden. The early arrangement reminds me more of Seasons End era Marillion songs like King of Sunset Town and Hooks in You - somewhat heavier and more guitar driven. The finished version on the other hand shows a nice progression of the Marillion sound, the synthesised intro section building the tension nicely up to the first instrumental break. According to H's podcast, this arrangement was developed by Christopher Neil (HiE producer) and Mark Kelly - I found this interesting given the criticism which is often leveled on Christopher Neil for the 'Marillion lite' sound of Holidays in Eden. Yes, it has its share of ballads/lighter numbers but Splintering Heart, The Party, and This Town/The Rakes Progress/100 Nights are classic Marillion imo.
I was just waiting for you to post the next entry... I can do Brave and AOS if you like, but I don't have the Stoke Row to Ipanema DVD so I feel I wouldn't do it justice...
I thought you were taking it! I could do the next two. I think I have that DVD, but I'd never planned on including video.
