Marillion Album By Album Thread

Hi all, I think I'd like to undertake a Marillion ABA thread.

I just completed my P-Funk thread (well at least my main reviews) and I am going to go see them at Marillion weekend in April so pouring through and writing about their (very large) discography seems appropriate.

Let me know if some of you guys are down. Time permitting I can do the first album this afternoon.

A few notes about where I'm coming from:
- To get the whole "Fish" vs "H" thing out the way immediately, I actually prefer H because I was like 2 years old or something when Marillion got together originally and while I still like some prog, I don't dig it as much as before. While modern Marillion is like my 2nd favorite rock band ever. So I'm in a bit of a minority opinion here but hopefully that could make it more interesting and of course you guys can present your points of view.

- I would be doing the proper Marillion studio albums only, no side projects, and maybe address some singles as I feel like it. They have like a billion live albums so I may pick a couple to cover.

- As with my P-Funk thread, others are encouraged to write about concerts, side projects, anything related to the band, but do keep it in the same chronological order I'm going in. Don't jump ahead. That way folks that come in later can read it logically and in order and it'll make for a neat thread.

- I want to finish before mid April so I imagine I'd be doing two albums a week or so.

 

I'd be in for that. Was a big fan in the 1980s when Fish was on board, then dipped in and out for a while before getting right back into them with all the vinyl reissues over the last couple of years.

As it happens, I'm going to see them in London this Thursday 11th, which will be the first time I've seen them for around 25 years!

 

Cool, I guess I'll kick things off.



This was their first album, as well as my introduction to the band, and to me it remains one of the top 3-4 albums the band released. What really stood out to me and hooked me on the band were Fish's unique vocals, the lyrical content, and Rothery's soaring leads and exquisite tone (which gives Dave Gilmour a run for his money). Also, as is consistent with the grand Prog tradition, it features killer artwork. It's a real achievement, especially for a debut, and set a very high bar for the albums that followed.

 

That is cool.
And an inspiration to immediately break my own rule: please do share your experience of that concert, even though it is chronologically out of order of Marillion history

 

I picked this LP up when it was first released in the US based on write-ups in Kerrang! Magazine. I really liked how the album managed to breathe. There is so much light and dark contrast that I was instantly curious. Song-wise, nothing really jumped out at me, so I put it aside for a few months. When I tried again later it was a much different story. The layers revealed themselves the more I listened. The hooks were in there waiting for the patient listener to discover. "Forgotten Sons" was the first song that I really latched on to, then "He Knows You Know." Before long I was hooked for life. So sad that I missed their very brief tour of the States in '83 with Divinyls...

 

Script seemed like a bold statement at the time and it still is an incredibly strong album, even though nowadays - in the light of Marillion's later career - it's almost like an oddity in their catalogue. I have a strong admiration towards the band's Fish era albums - and Script in particular - but still I must say that it wasn't until Seasons End that I really became a fan of theirs.

 

I think that Script is like many debut albums - all the best ideas from 3 or so years of getting a setlist and band together.

Whilst I was already a big Genesis fan at that point (my 15 year old self in 1983), funnily enough I bought the album purely on the basis of the sleeve and lyrics whilst on a school exchange trip in Germany. Hamburg, to be precise. It was only later that I picked up on the 'copyist' accusations, but it's clear enough to anyone at that point that there is more than a hint of Gabriel in Fish's delivery.

It's such a great opening track, not many albums (let alone debuts) draw you in so skilfully.

Strange in a way though that the debut single (Market Square Heroes) and it's attendant B-sides (Three Boats Down From The Candy / Grendel) are completely unrepresented on the album. They would have been interesting discussions to be involved in methinks.

After getting the album and playing it to death, I also picked up quite a few cassette bootlegs (remember those) from gigs between 80-82 which showed how they had developed a) as a band and b) individual songs. As I recall, The Web changed significantly between first outings and the version on the album.

 

I have always thought that Marillion's Genesis/Gabriel influences were somewhat exaggerated in those early days. To me it was something that was rather superfluous and only briefly seemed obvious. There's an interesting menacing quality in Fish's delivery that in my opinion is much closer to Peter Hammill than Gabriel - the opening of Script for a Jester's Tear, for instance, is very Hammill-like - it has always strongly reminded me of Autumn (on Hammill's Over), "So, here we are, alone..."

 

I love all Marillion's album with Fish, but those with other singers don't move me much. The same goes for Fish's solo output: It doesn't move me that much, although there's a couple of great songs here and there. Just as somebodey pointed out we should actually have stared the discussion with Marquet Square Heroes, since with the 18 min. long Grendel song actually could be considered a mini LP. But maybe we'll save that one until the discussion about B'sides themselves?

 

I enjoy Script for what it is, but for me, it plods a bit, especially when compared to the subsequent albums of the Fish era. Some of this is the drumming (Mick Pointer was clearly the band's weak link at the time), but some of it is also the band's immaturity as composers—song sections stop and start without transitions, which is indicative of the fact that the songs were built by stacking up smaller pieces. (Marillion still writes this way, but they have become much better at hiding it.) Still, it maintains a creepy, somewhat grimy vibe throughout, addressing street-level issues that were rarely tackled head-on by the older crop of prog bands that were transforming or being put out to pasture at the time. And it wraps up with the scathing (well, by neo-prog standards) "Forgotten Sons," for which the segmented composition style actually works because it's meant to be something of a PTSD phantasmagoria until its resolution. It's probably the best song that the band was capable of writing at the time, which sounds like faint praise, but is not intended as such. As a whole, Script is enjoyable, but not the band's finest hour by a long shot.

 

I agree with you. The Genesis influence is way overstated. Peter Hammill was easily as big an influence-if not more so-than 70s Genesis. The only Marillion album that reminds me of Genesis is "Script" in places and it has more to do with the way Kelly/Rothery interact on the instrumental bits a little like Banks/Hackett. From the same period, I think IQ's first couple of albums sound *a lot* more like Genesis than Marillion ever did.

 

Like the OP I also came late to Marillion, although I did know Misplaced Childhood when it was released but only followed it up with The Thieving Magpie. Was still strapped for cash and had a tendency of dipping my toes into artists / bands discographies.

Script is a great debut but for me Marillion really became special with Misplaced Childhood. Script has at least two songs I really don't care for in the form of Garden Party (due to the subpar drumming, versions with Ian Mosley on drums are a lot better) and The Web. But the rest of the album is just stellar with Chelsea Monday and Forgotten Sons being true Marillion classics.

Like Mike I am also looking forward to Marillion Weekend but mine is a bit sooner, in March, as I will be attending the European edition which is the flagship of the three weekends as this is the one where the band completely takes over a big holiday resort here n the Netherlands, fills all the lodges / bungalows with Marillion fans, where the facilities (pools, tennis courts etc etc) are available and the band themselves mingle during the day and the whole parc has this amazing Marillion Family vibe going. And then you get 3 evenings of concerts in a row (with various support acts as well) with the band playing different sets each night totalling about 7,5 hours of music. These weekends are simply amazing .

 

I am very grateful and excited to see enthusiasm for this thread.
In honor of you guys and the band and my own nerddom, I'm going to hit the brakes and talk a bit about the band's formation, early history and first single release.

Our setting is London, 1978. British rock music is arguably at its most vibrant, diverse and BUSY since the mid 60s, with prog bands at their commercial height, the Manchester starting to bubble, heavy metal/hard rock gods thundering across the arenas of the world (and many would argue starting to suffocate under their own weight), the shocking new (to Brits) sounds coming from Germany in the form of krautrock and slinky, and the punk rock revolution and reggae grooves from Jamaica grabbing hold of the attention of young wanna be market square heroes.

In this haze, a group of ambition musicians, raised on a diet of Genesis (the artsy one with Peter Gabriel, not Patrick Bateman's favorite band), Yes, Van Der Graaf Generator, and Rush got together to do their part to expand the minds and album running times of the hapless public.

Founding members of a band called "Silmarillion":
Steve Rothery- guitars
Mick Pointer- drums
Doug Irvine- bass, vocals
Brian Jelliman- keyboards

The first thing that would jump out at anyone familiar with the band and hence reading this thread is the recognition of one name only- Steve Rothery, the only founding member to have been a member from day one until today.

The second name hardcore fans might recognize is Mick Pointer, as he made it as long as the first album.

The 3rd name super-hardcore fans might recognize is Silmarillion, the posthumous Tolkien book they named their band after, in perhaps an experiment to see whether it was possible to be a rock band that couldn't get laid.

The fact that they started off as a "prog" band and quickly changed, of all people, their singer (and then of course later would change him again) really drives home the point they were SHREDDERS first that learned how to craft emotional, lyrical music as they matured. This is a theme I will be returning to ad nauseam throughout the thread and is one of the core reasons I love them.

3/1/80: Berkhamsted Civic Centre, Hertfordshire- first gig. I have no idea what this possibly would have sounded or looked like.

 

While Forgotten Sons is THE tour de force of Script.... He Knows you Know and Chelsea Monday really rock! Mark Kelly really stood out from other keyboard players.

 

Misplaced Childhood was the first album by the band I ever heard, when it was released, but this was the first one I actually bought, which I had to special order from Musicland in a mall. I still think it's a strong album, much better than Fugazi, for example. I was a Genesis fan and that comparison (which I'd heard about on the radio) was what pulled my teenage self in.

I'm a fan of all phases of this band although I think Marbles is their best album by far.

 

I don't think there is a lot of lyrical similarity, everything else was there in terms of comparison to Genesis. Honestly, i always felt that as musicians they were certainly on par with Genesis. And sadly, they followed the pattern in terms of how quickly their peak passed.

 

Apologies to the OP if this isn't where he wants to go... but I love the discussion of the band's early days before we get to Script.

There are a few collections of demos and such from the pre-Fish days. One of my favorites is "Lady Fantasy" from 1980.



The band's overall sound is shockingly different from what we'd eventually hear on the first record. There's a pastoral quality to the vocals/keys that recalls early folk-rock and prog bands -- most notably Camel, who of course had their own "Lady Fantasy." That is, of course, until Rothery's first guitar break smashes the pastoral politeness. There's a very strong NWOBHM sound to Rothery's lead that doesn't quite jell with the rest of the song. This is clearly a young band trying to navigate its way through its influences to find its own sound.

 

1980-1981:
- Replace Irvine with a bass player named Diz Minitt, whose name sounds funny when spoken aloud.
- Chop off the first, potentially lawsuit inviting first syllable of their group name.
- Undaunted in their goal of rock 'n' roll celibacy, they get a Scottish singer by the slightly silly name of Derek William Dick who insists on going by the completely silly stage name of "Fish." Decades later, the combination of his stage name and given last name would be referenced on South Park:


This lineup would perform a bit until:

- Mark Kelly replaces Jelliman on keyboard; then Pete Trewavas replaces Minitt on the bass

The lineup of Fish, Rothery, Pointer, Kelly and Trewavas would land a regular gig at the venerable Marquee Club and form a core "neo-prog" scene with the likes of IQ and Pendragon.
Their first demo tape had the songs "He Knows You Know", "Garden Party" and "Charting the Single." The first two would make it onto their debut album. While I take early Marillion as hit or miss, both of those songs are hits for me so it's impressive how they hit pay dirt from the get-go.

A bit about each member:

Fish: other posters have referenced Peter Hamill and I agree that his theatrical, octave-hopping delivery is more of an influence than anybody else on Fish's early personna. Though Fish sounded lower and gruffer. The comparisons to Gabriel no doubt came from the makeup he liked to use on stage. Of course makeup was an acceptable thing back then, what with KISS and whatnot.
Certainly bringing on a dynamic, powerfully theatrical performer was a smart way to set themselves apart from other bands. It may have made them look corny to many as well and I probably would have thought so at the time.
Lyrically Fish liked to complain about his feelings and the state of the world. He was like a younger Roger Waters in that regard.

Mick Pointer: uh... is a drummer. Drummers, keyboardists, and bass players are not usually folks I have much to say about unless they're really great or terrible or otherwise noticeable. Pointer was fine. His replacement is fine. I dunno. Maybe I'll hear a difference when we get there.

Steve Rothary: even early on he mastered phrasing and tone. David Gilmour is the usual comparison made when people describe him. He rarely used distortion and noisy things like feedback and fuzz tones, favoring clean lines and melodies.

Pete Trawavas: In the 90s or early 00s, he did an album with Mike Portnoy, drummer from Dream Theater, who compared Trewavas to Paul McCartney because of his playing being so melodic, and I still think that's a pretty apt comparison.

Mark Kelley: The rare "prog" keyboard player that never got in the way. Clearly this is my bias, as I usually see the instrument as superfluous to rock music, so it only works for me when it provides atmosphere and fills the musical space unobtrusively. Kelley has managed to do this throughout his tenure at Marillion during their shifting styles and that is really impressive.

The common thread among the core instrumentalists of the band is: taste. They don't go crazy. They always seem to sort of play exactly the right thing.

 

No this is perfect. I never heard this clip, that is pretty wild. I also do like Camel (and saw them on their final tour).
In addition to your observations what jumps out at me is the lighter touch of the singer. That must be Irvine?
Bringing the huge, dramatic Scot sure must've been quite a jolt to the writing and rehearsing process.

 

Great summation, but the Pointer/Mosley comparison is: worlds apart!!! Pointer is a *dreadful*, plodding and aimless drummer, and Mosley is a hugely talented, experienced and explosive-when-he-has-to-be drummer...

 

Also of note from the pre-Fish days is "Herne the Hunter." This one is from the same inspirational well as "Grendel," though "Herne" sounds more like Gabriel-era Genesis than anything the band would eventually release with Fish.

 

I agree with this entirely... there's a lot more Hammill influence in Fish's lyrics and delivery than Gabriel. I've always assumed that the Fish/PG comparison was based upon their appearance on stage ("just like a grease paint mask") and then somewhat lazily transferred to their presence as front men/vocalists.

Fish:



PG:

 

Rothery's lyricism was formed that early though, wow.
The sound of synth keyboards do not age well from old demo tapes.

 

The earliest Marillion stuff I own is a bootleg from Leicester in 1981 as well as a collection of demos., a couple of which were noted above:

Marillion (still Silmarillion at this time)
1980-03, The Lodge (The Enid's studio), Hertford, England - Hertfordshire, UK
(a.k.a. "Spring Demo")

1. The Haunting Of Gill House 7:38
2. Herne The Hunter 12:04
3. Alice (instrumental version)
4. Scott's Porridge *
5. Alice (with vocals)

line-up:
Doug Irvine - bass
Brian Jelliman - keyboards
Mick Pointer - drums
Steve Rothery - guitar

* See notes below

1980 "Summer Demo 1980" unknown studio, possibly again at the Enid's studio, possibly 6 June

6. Close
7. Lady Fantasy
8. Alice

line-up (believed to be):
Doug Irvine - bass
Brian Jelliman - keyboards
Mick Pointer - drums
Steve Rothery - guitar

02.01.1981 - Leyland Hill Farm Studio - Gawcott, England

9. The Web

line-up;
Mick Pointer - drums
Steve Rothery - guitar
Brian Jelliman - keyboards
Diz Minnit - bass
Fish - vocals

 

"Mick Pointer: uh... is a drummer. Drummers, keyboardists, and bass players are not usually folks I have much to say about unless they're really great or terrible or otherwise noticeable. Pointer was fine. His replacement is fine. I dunno. Maybe I'll hear a difference when we get there."

I don't really much of a problem with Pointer, although he's clearly not in the same league as Ian Moseley, who had already played with the likes of Trace, Steve Hackett and (I think) Darryl Way's Wolf. I think Moseley has a really distinctive melodic approach that really fit in with where Marillion were going better than Pointer did. I don't think Pointer's gotten a whole lot better over the years judging from his work in Arena, but I'm glad he came back because they've done a handful of really solid neo-prog albums over the years.