Marillion - Post-Fish

I'll take 'insincere emotive claptrap' "This Strange Engine" over waffle like "Pseudo Silk Kimono" any day thanks.

 

I'll take both!

 

He was a great singer and lyricist, but like any singer who doesn't play an instrument, he's limited by what music is given to him to sing over, which I'm in general pretty underwhelmed by from the solo albums of his that I've sampled. It's not that the solo stuff is bad, but little of it stands out to me either, and in general I'm much more interested in the music than the lyrics. It's hard to fully evaluate Fish as a songwriter when i'm not sure he's ever written a song by himself. Nothing wrong with that when you're a member of a brilliant band, but as a solo artist, it's pretty limiting.

 

I recollect something to that effect that as well. But it seems fairly obvious give in statement in the '98 liner notes that he listened to those demos then. That doesn't seem as clear on the doc that he revisited those tapes at that time the doc was recorded . He may have been going with his general feeling at the time which had been subject to pressure on a number of fronts.

 

Musical chemistry. Yes. Thank you. That's exactly my point.

They could have fired their manager, which in hindsight everyone seems to agree on. Fish was pushing for that but the other (likely because Fish suggested it given the personal acrimony that had festered between him and the rest of the band in this pressure cooker of a situation.) Fish leaving was the easiest way out but he admits now it should have been handled differently. But hindsight is always 20-20.

 

I love about 80 percent of his solo work and he's seems to have even gotten better with age (Which I'm a bit surprised about if I'm honest) based on the last few albums.

The only weak ones for me were his covers album when he was having another spat with his record label, Suits (which I've warmed a bit on over the years. ) and Field Of Crows which I didn't think was a very strong album. The rest of it I listen to and enjoy fairly regularly.

Although the story goes he's a bit difficult to work with as a solo artist in the studio, I think his collaborations seem to be very good if not great.

 

To each their own. I've tried. I just can't connect to the music. I mean, most of it is okay, but none of it is really great (IMO). And, I mean, it's just the difference between being a solo artist and being in a band...in Marillion, he had four guys giving him the best music they could possibly create. As a solo artist, he gets what he gets from whomever he's working with on a given album, but it's likely the primary collaborators have other projects/bands as well. There's just that sense of melodicism and songcraft that's missing from the Fish solo stuff I've heard, probably just because the focus is on him, and I'm more into the arrangements and musicians and instrumental bits. I haven't given up on him, maybe it'll click one day, it's just how I've generally felt whenever I've tried to get into it.

 

Without getting into the Fish Vs H thing, which I think is pretty silly, I do have to admit that I admire how Marillion have evolved over the past 40 years, even if I don't always love what they've done. You can't really say the same for most of Marillion's 'neo-prog' contemporaries, who have either disbanded or really haven't changed much at all.

 

I love Anoraknophobia! I think it's their funnest album. Haven't heard Anorak in the UK but noticed it seems to have horrible mastering, just guessing from the DR values (which you shouldn't, I know).

Of course, like @Diamond Dog said, they have released an unbelievable amount of live albums (it's actually far more than studio albums!), but the two that have been rather widely distributed, I think are those:
Live from Cadogan Hall (which was done on the "Less Is More" tour)
All One Tonight (from the "F.E.A.R." tour, although this was a special one-off show with additional musicians and the like)

That said, there was also a Marbles Live album which was widely distributed I think, so I guess we can say Marillion broke the pattern roughly around the same time as Rush did (with Rush in Rio).

 

In this instance, the DR values tell you all you really need to know. There's enough quiet sections in the music in stuff like "Great Escape," "Mad," "Afraid Of Sunlight," etc that the overall album isn't as fatiguing as it could be, but given that Anorak was their last real rock album, the rock tracks on it ("Separated Out," "Between You And Me," "Rich," etc) are pretty awful-sounding. It's really a bummer, because the mix itself is among the better of their insane number 2000's-era live releases.

 

I guess we all have to hope for a remaster, then. Amazing how they could put out something as beautiful sounding as Unplugged at the Walls just a couple of years earlier...

I think Fugazi has some amazing singing! The range and power on that album is pretty phenomenal.

As for Hogarth, he sort of retuned his approach slightly, and especially became more straightforward with the rockers in the late 90s (compared to, say, "Hooks in You")

I think Brave has about twice as many melodies as FEAR and much better flow from one track to the next, not to mention better production (the heavy limiting on the loud parts of FEAR is abysmal!)... but to each their own I guess

 

You might be right - but strangely, I very often prefer live Marillion to studio Marillion. I actually often prefer h's vocals in the live setting, because he somehow gets enlivened by the audience and puts more strength into the melodies. That and the tendency to perhaps overload songs in the studio - I'm thinking of "Drilling Holes" as a good example, that song really becomes something else in concert.

Agree with the 2 disc version. Can't believe they left "The Damage" off the single disc!

I wonder if it might have been deliberate? His vocals certainly sound more assured on live versions.

 

Well, those are completely night and day, musically. But also the Anorak one went through EMI, so maybe that had something to do with it, i dunno. It's so much worse than the studio album that that's the only explanation I can think of.

 

I've always found Marillion's approach to recording and mastering their post-EMI albums somewhat haphazard. For me, the better sounding studio releases are Marillion.com, Anoraknophobia, and Happiness Is The Road. The recording and mix of FEAR and Sounds That Can't Be Made are really good, but they have been compressed too much during mastering for my taste. Marbles kind of average sounding - some tracks are better than others, which is a shame since musically its their strongest release. This Strange Engine has nice dynamics, but is a bit thin sounding. Given they have tended to use the same engineers and studios for all these releases, the huge differences in mixing and mastering are somewhat strange and nonsensical.

In terms of live albums, again there is huge variation. The recent Royal Albert Hall release is outstanding - great recording, mix and master. Brave Live 2013 is also excellent. Some of the heavily compressed live releases also sound good - Size Matters is a good example. But you are right, Anorak Live In The UK is a total mess...

 

I do quite like the sound of Marbles, although it can get a bit too congested in parts. There have been various mixing engineers on that album, and it was the last time they worked with Dave Meegan.

Although FEAR is definitely compressed quite horribly in the loud parts, I don't like the mix that much either... typical choices for Mike Hunter: add so much reverb to the piano that it sounds totally artificial, mix the bass so that it has no low end left, and the drums sound like a drum machine! They need someone who can get a warmer, more analog sound.

Any opinions on the new DVD/Blu-Ray/CD sets from the 2017 weekend?

 

Steve Hogarth is a guest on my podcast “Sending Signals” this month. Out now in the usual places. Let me know what you think.

Anyone going to the Nov tour? I’ll be front row at Southend!

 

I find Fish era terribly dated now, and more a curio. I very rarely if ever play Fish era Marillion. I love the Hogarth era stuff but have lost touch with them since Somewhere Else. I did buy F.E.A.R but haven't really got into it for some reason. I need to revisit.