Mastering flaw on Mobile Fidelity Beatle Box

I have searched the archives, but have not seen anything about this, so exuse me if it's been covered before.

When the Beatle box set was released by Mobile Fidelity back in the 80's, nobody was more excited than was I. I had been listening to the Japanesse box set for a while at this time and though it was much better than what I had previously owned, I was and am always looking for improvement. After all, these records are the Holy Grail to me. I've been listening to and studying these recordings for decades and still occasionally hear new things.

How long can this go on? Considering, these were recordings basically made for kids, who in a million years ever thought back in the day that these would stand up this well. There is very little doubt that the 'kids' music of today will not hold up like the Beatles.

Well I bought the MF box set the first day it was available. It was to me a big improvement in many ways over the Japaneese box set, but I quickly discovered a mastering flaw. I was shocked. After all, this was supposed to be the state of the art for record making, and I couldn't figure out how this passed their quality control. I would have never let these out with this problem.

I immediately called MFSL to mention this, and they told me there were no flaws on the records. Fortunately, for me, I had previously worked with Stan Ricker (original MFSL cutting engineer) and that clout finally won me an audience with Jack Hunt and the other MFSL personnel.

Prior to our meeting, I proceeded to analyze the records and fully document what I considered the flaws. Some sides had this flaw to a large degree and some had no traces of it. In any event, I and another engineer buddy of mine, made the trip up to the valley to discuss this matter.

Well would you believe that they couldn't hear the flaw on their playback system, until we repeatedly pointed it out to them. By it's nature, I was able to definitely prove to them that it was a mastering issue and was not on the master tapes, or whatever tapes they used. Finally Jack heard it, but said it was so minor as to not be an issue. Well I totally disagreed with that. To me it sticks out like a sore thumb and diminishes the otherwise excellent work they did on the project.

As a result, they finally agreed to make up a new set of the 14 sides for me, and hand pick them to find sides that did not have this problem. Well a week later the package arrived, and I was totally excited to put them on. Once again I was shocked. Some of the new discs were an improvement over the sides in my box, and some were much worse. Either they didn't listen to them or they couldn't hear the flaw.

I did end up with another set of discs, and they also gave me a UHQR of Sgt Peppers, which is awesome.

But I was shocked to realize that nobody in the world complained about this flaw, and they couldn't hear it either.

Now I have specifically not yet mentioned the nature of this flaw, but IMO proved 100% to them that it existed, and was caused by them during mastering.

Does anybody out there know what I am referring to?

 

Well those are real but different issues, but this is worse in my opinion. Here's a clue. There was leader between the cuts on the tape they used so there should be silence between cuts other than groove noise.

Should I tell now, or wait?

 

They made some poor EQ choices, that's for sure.

Is THAT what you're refering to?

 

No, there is a 120 cycle sawtooth buzz on the affected sides from start to finish. It can clearly be heard between songs, but is also there during the songs.

Since there was leader between tracks, this noise could not have come from the tapes.

Secondly, since it was 1/2 speed mastered, the normal 60 cycle noise now appears as 120 cycle.

They finally did hear it and assumed it was ground related or possibly lighting related.

For me, it's a low note around a B flat that permeates everything.

On some sides it's worse than others.

Nobody's heard this?

 

Wow, Steve, that's a lot of eq. I must admit I hadn't realized that much was used. Tapes must have been deemed pretty dull by them.

 

I think they said there were 5 parts cut for each side. Some had this noise more than others, but on the bad ones I'd say the noise was no less than 50 or 60 db down. You'd have to listen fairly loud to notice, but once you hear it, it's always there.

The reason I call this a flaw is because they didn't do this intentionally. The poor eq was a conscious decision.

 

The master tape of Michelle is broken??

 

I believe that he is referring to the master mixdown(two-track)tape that is used to master records.

So what is this flaw? The main problem I have with the MFSL Beatles LP's is that they are mastered too low, IMO.

Evan

 

So, Steve, are you suggesting that the actual masters were used for the MFSL project. I've heard not, but they are so quiet, that it boggles the mind that they could have used copies. And especially with that high end boost. That would increase the generational hiss considerably.

 

Really? I am amazed that EMI would let them be sent out of the country. MoFi must have paid big bucks for that project.

Evan

 

Thanks for that info Steve. I always thought that was the case but was always led to believe I was wrong. But, according to the ears, it seems obvious.

Not to state the obvious, but you are a surely wealth of GREAT imformation.

 

My extreme pleasure to be a part of this. I'm really enjoying this Forum. By sharing this way we all get better. No matter how much you know, there is ALWAYS more to learn.

Gosh, the pressure on Stan to repair that Michele master must have been intense.

 

Well, Doug, because of this thread, I dug my turntable out of the closet and lugged it downstairs, got my Mobile Fidelity boxset out of another closet and listened. I couldn't hear the sound you mentioned. But then my system's not the greatest. Besides, if the guys at Mobile Fidelity didn't notice it, why should I expect to? Anyway, it was a fun couple of hours.

 

Hi all
Back earlier this year I noted this defect (low level hum) in a thread entitled
"An Unenlightened Q re. MFSL Beatles LPs"
http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=30040&page=2&pp=20

I guess it's not present in all pressings...but it's there in the LP's I have, and low level but easy to hear.

So I wasn't going mad!!!

 

Well billh, I guess I'm not terribly surprised. At least you got to hear some great music.

I've always been afflicted with the ability, good or bad, to hear things that most others don't. Let me change that to hear things others don't notice. I believe most everybody hears what I hear. They just often don't know it.

This can also be a curse.

I've pointed out these types of things to some people on their home audio systems, and then they always heard them after being shown. In the final analysis, they were probably better off not knowing.

There were also lots of examples, where I'd walk in to a control room and hear something wrong. Nobody else would hear it, until they started soloing stuff, and alas there it was. Perhaps it was that I had fresh ears and they were too involved. Who knows? I just remember it happening lots.

Here is an easy way to hear the noise on the MF stuff, but once again, you might regret knowing about it. Listen loud between songs, where there is no music to mask the sound. Now I do have a pretty good record playing rig, but I'm sure many of you do as well. Remember it is not on all parts of all sides, but if you have the box set, I'm nearly 100% sure that some of your sides will have this problem. And since there were around 5 parts of each side cut, there are lots of combinations. But, I've found it on more sides than not. It is obvious to me even on PortaPro headphones listening through my laptop, but then again I know about it.

In fact I've digitized all of my MFSL records and edited them in Cool Edit Pro and have actually seen the noise before I removed it from the heads and tails of the songs. Looks just like a nasty 120 cycle sine wave with garbage riding on it. It is fairly low level, but what your ears can't hear, you eyes probably will see.

I didn't try to remove any of this noise from the actual body of the song as I would have not been able to do it without removing some of the precious music. I was unfortunately able to hear this noise from cd's I made when played in the car, so at least I removed the noise between cuts.

I'm basically holding out for hi resolution Beatle stereo remasters with somebody like Steve there to make sure stuff comes out right. It's a bloody shame that the Beatles are as significant as they are and have some of the worst sounding cd's.

 

I knew somebody had to hear it. Thanks for the reply.

 

Insured by Lloyds of London for $1,000,000 IIRC. At the moment I can't remember if that was per tape, or for the lot of them.

Don't you remember the story about a tape (tapes?) almost getting stolen at the airport?

 

Did they redo Abbey Road for the box set?

 

Actually, Martin, I don't. Could you enlighten me?

Evan

 

That's one million dollars? Heck, I'd think those things are worth MUCH more than that. Heck they're priceless.

 

Let me search around for a site where the story is told better than I can. I think it was in an interwiew with one of the people that used to be with MoFi. Basically (IIRC) a case was put down on the floor at the airport, someone grabbed it, and the person that shouldn't have put it down to begin with had to run after the person who took it to get it back. Luckily it escaped being stolen!