Maybe Need help with transitioning to a new Dac - from Topping D 70s to?

It’s my first DAC.

It goes into my Sansui Eight which has been fully recapped last year. Speakers are Sonus Faber Venere 1.5’s. The speakers are staying, they sound great with the Sansui and also with a Yamaha AV with all other inputs for the family room. ( I have a Beresford amp/speaker switch between the two, so I can select either Yamaha for TV, etc, or Sansui for strict 2 channel going into the speakers)

Features I love with Topping D70s - Bluetooth and usb functionality into to my Sansui. RCA’s.

Features I don’t like - it’s too bright for me going into the Sansui, also too much bass. This is on straight DAC. It also has a pre-amp feature, which is awesome because I can use the remote control for volume, but it is way too much for my ears. Can’t handle it. Bright to the max.

My price range is the $600 to $800 range.

How long should i wait for this to break in, and would braking it in mellow out the bass, sharpness?

My perfect DAC would go into the Sansui, with USB and Bluetooth, and have a volume control from remote

I haven't messed with the Topping’s adjustable roll off functions (I’m not familiar with those terms or functions).

Any recommendations on those settings, or should I just take it for a loss, or let it burn in? Would love to let it burn in more but not home to watch it right now.

 

The Sansui Eight does have stellar tone controls, should I just use those while using the DAC?

Sorry for the newbie DAC questions. But I do get some serious depth with it and see the benefits. For example Neil Young Down by the River, depth deep down in the river but some serious bright highs.

 

No need to speculate. Been messing with the tone controls. Two knocks off the bass, one off the mid, and one off the high. Great Floyd over the iphone/BT.

I’m keeping it, will tweak as necessary. Serious Bass tho, didn’t know the low rung SF’s had it in them.

 

I'd focus on the DAC part, not the other features. A R2R DAC generally has a "smoother" less "digital" sound. In your price range, Schiit, Audio-GD, and Denafrips make great sounding DAC's. I have several DACs and prefer the R2R sound myself. YMMV.

 

Yep, you nailed it. Functions are/were the priority for me. Bluetooth is what sold it for me, also the MQA conversion though I don’t even subscribe to Tidal. Future scalability.

The Topping D70s has glowing reviews, haven’t seen one negative review or questioned its brightness or technical sound.

R2R is definitely for me and my systems. I’ve always been an analogue listener. This has really put the two different camps in perspective for me (technical vs analogue approach.)

Next step is see if the sound “rounds out” when making a tape recording through the DAC. Going to let it burn in more to give it a proper chance.

 

I had a Topping D70 for a few months. It replaced a Cambridge DacMagic and, to begin with, it sounded amazing. So much more detail than the DacMagic. But, as time passed, my ears/brain couldn't take it anymore. There was no musical integrity. Instead, I was hearing sounds, great sounds, but they didn't cohere into a musical whole.

After that, I gambled on a Denafrips Ares, and lost. I was very disappointed with the Ares. It reminded me of the DacMagic but I preferred the DacMagic.

Finally, I bought an RME ADI-2 FS, and now I'm a happy man. I even bought a second one as a headphone amp.

 

You really nailed the Topping phenom.
Sounds great, very clear.
Yet Annoying.

 

Both of you are SPOT ON! It goes straight to annoying bypassing fatiguing.

Still, Going to let to burn in some more just to give it the benefit of the doubt.

 

yeah for something like the topping but better, I'd look at RME and benchmark. they measure AND sound good (though imho benchmark beats RME )
for something totally different, r2r.

 

I just found a setting I can deal with while continuing to break it in.

Low Filter - On
High Filter - On
Loudness - On

Midrange tone -2db
Bass -1db
Treble 0

 

I have found that when going through AVR or AV Preamp, even using pure direct, the sound of all my DAC sounded poor to me.

On the other hand, DAC direct to amp sounded much better.

I am thinking that the issue most likely related the the circuit of my AVR and AV Preamp.

So, I wonder if your issue could be similar to mine? Maybe it is your Sansui? Do you have any other way to test out your DAC without Sansui? Another stereo amp maybe?

 

My simple advice is try out other Dacs and see if there’s one that sounds better to you. I just bought/using an Ifi Zen Signature Dac and it sounds very nice in my system. It grabs audio from USB and sends it to my Pioneer amp. This Dac has a very natural sound and uses two Burr-Brown chips. It doesn’t have Bluetooth, so for mobile you will need a constant cable connection. I also have the less fabulous Ifi nano Dac that I use for the living room tv and it does Bluetooth and optical and sounds good too. The other suggestion that popped in my head is your connections, simplify and shorten those and plug in only what’s needed while your testing the sound.

 

Really good suggestions. I had the blinders on. The main intent was for the DAC to go to the Sansui. I just plugged it into my Yamaha AV, which sits next to the Sansui, hit the amp switch box. Much better method to use to for burn in of the DAC.

Have Radio Paradise going from Bluetooth to the DAC and played with all the Sound Fields from the comfort of the couch. 2Ch and pure direct had the same results as the Sansui...but once I hit the music hall, much better.

Vienna Music Hall Sound Field is giving it that Shoe-Gazer sound and rounding the sound, like we are in the back of the Hall. Will be leaving it on this all day.

This DAC has ALL the features I was after, dual outputs (My AV doesn’t have balanced inputs, but my idea, tho not optimal, was to get balanced to rca adapter for the AV connection - need to order), Bluetooth, HDMI (is2), usb, coax, etc.

My fallback will be getting another Yamaha WXC-50, which I enjoy and like in the bedroom to an old AV setup, until there are more offering in my price range with the features I’m after.

Paying $700 for a DAC for me was a stretch in the “is it necessary” department. As you can tell, I’m not a real digital person.

 

Might as well add a visual here. The amp switch is on the bottom left sitting on it’s side next to the cd players and Dac.

The flying V speaker stands were one of the fun little projects I had an idea for. They hold records. The main case always housed the AV but I had wood boxes for kids dvd/movies when they were necessary. Then of course I found this forum right when the kids grew out of disney movies and...oh my.

 

Regarding using xlr to RCA adapter, I think maybe this won't work well. Xlr output can go up to 4V, your Sansui and Yamaha maybe only able to handle up to 2V....

Another thought: Maybe set your d70 to preamp mode and lower the output by 10db and see if it sound better for you.

 

You might check the manual about using both outputs at the same time. I had a D70 a year ago and thought using both outputs simultaneously was discouraged. Lowering the output as @pdxway says is worth a try, it may be too hot for the Sansui.

 

I have the D70s. I’ve read there is a noticeable difference between the D70 and the D70s. I haven’t heard the D70 though. For the money, I haven’t heard a DAC I like better, but it’s been about a month so maybe I’m still in the honeymoon phase. All the tests I’ve seen shows it measures flat and has incredible performance in almost all dimensions. Interestingly, DACs I prefer and cost much more don’t measure nearly as well. My guess is most people don’t prefer totally flat and very low distortion. I’m in that camp as well.

I hope you find what you’re looking for. If the D70s doesn’t come around for you, I would advise looking at DACs that have a sonic signature you like. I don’t think you’ll find a DAC that measures better in an audible fashion. From what I’ve seen, the Benchmark may measure better, but it’s below audible levels.

 

The D70s does 5v out the balanced output (2.5v on the RCA).

Edit: I should add that I run mine with BT off and Pure DAC (pre amp off). That way cancels a PCM conversion within the DAC if your running DSD which I do on occasion.

 

Wow. .....So likely too hot for Sansui .....

 

I’ve only been using the RCA output on direct RCA out. I just unplugged the rca out’s from the topping that went to the Sansui and used another set of rca’s to an open Audio in on the AV.

That is another really cool feature of the Topping, in settings you can switch between RCA output and Balanced output, or both RCA and XLR simultaneously which is actually the default (which is sorta odd). It can be done through the remote through settings.

I’m really hoping it mellows out because I dig the functions.

Using it in Pre-amp + DAC is out, which is the only way volume control can work, which is a real bummer. It’s just WAY to hot! Output voltage in pre-amp dac mode is 2.5 v thru RCA and 5.0 v thru XLR. Straight DAC is the only option for how I have my system setup. Was really hoping to have volume control through the remote on the sansui while using a laptop, cd and bluetooth.

I know I have a wacky system setup, but it’s perfect for me in every way. A Remote volume control (just a volume potentiometer), bluetooth, IIS, usb, smooth sounding DAC, two rca outputs ( ) would make it all time. I don’t need pre-amp features.

With all the vintage receivers out there with no remote control volume, I thought something like this would be readily available and have a market.

 

So is the 2.5v out in RCA for both preamp+dac and just for straight DAC. I was assuming the 2.5v out would just be when the pre-amp was in use to drive stand alone speakers? The manual and docs were not specific on it.

I would say I only have 30 hours or so on it. I think it needs over 100 hours for burn in? Not sure you would want to breaking it in with a tube.

 

Using the volume control on the D70 won't degrade the sound at all. I use the remote volume control on my dac even though my integrated amp has a remote volume control. Set the amp's volume control around 10 o'clock which is plenty loud, and control the volume with the dac remote. Try it and see.

 

I’ve been debating whether to send it back since the day I got it.

It’s finally starting to soften around the corners.

My “a/b” test for it is playing Radio Paradise through the Yamaha AV. Ipod streaming RP to the DAC’s Bluetooth, then switching to the Yamaha’s internal “Net” internet radio that is hardwired to hear the difference. All done through the remote and quickly. All on “straight” through the Yamaha.

The burn in on this seems to be long.

Another factor is the 20% restocking fee to return it. That’s $130 out.

I’m going to be keeping it, the functions were the determining factor, and hope it still relaxes.

Maybe I’ll open up the Toppings case and blow a bong hit on it.

 

Turn down the volume on the DAC a few dB, even up to 6 dB. You may be feeding the preamp too hot. Reducing volume also fixes intersample overflow clipping on most DACs.