MC cartridge for a Technics SL1500C?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by aunitedlemon, Dec 12, 2021.

  1. Davey

    Davey NP: Jane Weaver ~ Love in Constant Spectacle (LP)

    Location:
    SF Bay Area, USA
    You are looking at the difference from the main plot, the lower lines are the levels of the opposite stereo channel when each is driven alone, and typically you are looking at the difference at 1kHz for the specification. The range is typically the 0-50dB scale, should say on the plot, so in this case, 1dB per vertical division. My Benz cart looks to be around 35dB separation in the plot. Your AT33Sa looks to be just over 30dB in the plot you posted, presumably it is just a typical plot and not one specific to your cartridge.

    Below is the plot that came with my AT33PTG/II, like yours just part of the info sheet and not specific to my cartridge, looks right at 30dB separation ...


    [​IMG]


    Below are the plots that AT supplied for the ART9XA (top) and ART9XI (bottom) ... note the XA separation seems to be quite a bit below spec at around 23-24dB ...


    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2021
  2. aunitedlemon

    aunitedlemon Unity is in the pith. Thread Starter

    Location:
    Oregon
    Thanks, Davey. That actually made sense to me after I read your explanation a couple of times.
     
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  3. Oelewapper

    Oelewapper Plays vinyl instead of installing it on the floor.

    Definitely.
    Most tweaks are just meh, but this one isn’t just a tweak - it’s an actual upgrade.
    Dynamic damping like the KAB damper used to be a feature built into highend/hightech tonearms… I wonder why most tonearms of today are lower tech than they used to be in the late 70s/early 80s…
     
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  4. Oelewapper

    Oelewapper Plays vinyl instead of installing it on the floor.

    Those aren’t the same silver as the tonearm.
    They’re a lot darker, more like gunmetal grey or dark titanium like the tonearm on the SL-1200MK4.
    Idk why, but maybe that’s why Jelco calls it “bronze”, even though nothing like actual bronze.
     
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  5. aunitedlemon

    aunitedlemon Unity is in the pith. Thread Starter

    Location:
    Oregon
    Excuse me while I bloviate. :nauga:
    I've put ~50 hrs. on my new AT33Sa and I have to say, it's pretty fantastic. This being my first MC cart I admit that I now hear the appeal. There's an effortlessness to this sound that I never knew with MM. Not to say that I thought what I was hearing via MM carts was strained or unnatural, but there's a difference in the way the music flows from the speakers between these two cart styles. The music seems to have a more liquid, organic, and silky presence from the AT33Sa.

    "Air" is a descriptor I commonly see wrt MC vs. MM, and while it may be a somewhat generalized (and overused) term I agree that it is an important adjective. I always considered "air" as meaning more space between instruments- an open and roomy sound. I'm beginning to understand that this "air" also relates to how every sound occupies and claims its' own space. There's less smearing of context and more of a definitive accuracy in presence, contrast, and realism. The actual materialization of any given instrument has a relatability to it that is new to my ears (outside of well-produced or small-scale intimate live events).

    I'm enjoying improved detail of higher frequency details (give me some cymbal decay!) but also improved tonality in bass frequencies.
    I run my subwoofer pretty lean. I don't like to be able to blindly discern it. I've found a delicate threshold for my ears from having supple low freq support from the sub to overdoing it and stepping on the toes of my speakers and muddying up the musicality and details. I give the speakers the right of way and they are what I want to hear. This perceived improvement in bass tone with the MC caused me to eventually dial the sub crossover down yet another click.

    I played around with the GS Elevator EXP's cartridge impedance settings just a little bit. I've landed on 1k ohms because that seems to strike the most fulfilling soundscape. The sound is a bit more well-rounded (most notably in kickdrum delivery) compared to 840 ohms and the next step up, 5.1k ohms, begins to take on a papered texture, for lack of a better description. I'm very happy to be able to report that my phono set-up is also capable of impressive silence even with the volume knob heavily influenced. I credit the Graham Slee units for the dark-as-coal quiet their amplification provides.


    All in all I really don't have a valid complaint. In my house this move has been money well spent and it seems I'll happily be a MC listener for the foreseeable future. I still imagine a phono stage that allows me to easily switch between MM and MC to be a lure but isn't there always something?
    I love listening to records.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2021
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  6. Mike70

    Mike70 Forum Resident

    The hottest topic with MC is SUT vs headamp ... I have a GS MM but I'm wondering to add a SUT if I go to MC
     
  7. Oelewapper

    Oelewapper Plays vinyl instead of installing it on the floor.

    Imagine something like this:
    [​IMG]
    Just one switch to flip when changing cartridge types.


    I mean, what's the point of a turntable with removable headshell if you don't change between cartridges regularly?
     
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  8. AndyCC72

    AndyCC72 Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    I just today set up my new AT OC9XML on the SL1500C.

    had about 4 hours of play today and just didn’t want to stop. A definite improvement on the VM95ML.

    @aunitedlemon has put it far more eloquently than I could ever dream of doing in his post above so I’ll just say ‘what he said’.

    I added the KAB fluid dampener 2 weeks ago and that and the OC9XML has taken my vinyl enjoyment to the next level. The SQ improvement is more than I was expecting.
     
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  9. Mike70

    Mike70 Forum Resident

    SUT or headamp? :D
     
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  10. AndyCC72

    AndyCC72 Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    Phono stage that lets me switch between MM & MC
     
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  11. Big Blue

    Big Blue Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wisconsin
    The “bronze” is what had thrown me off when I had searched around previously. Seeing that it is more of a grey metal color, at least, I went ahead and grabbed one. Holding it up next to the tonearm (not installed yet), I think it’s close enough to at least not trigger my completely nonsense visual dislike of the black headshell on the silver arm.

    Silly, for sure, but I just called it a Christmas present to myself (I’ve certainly received less useful gifts…).
     
  12. Oelewapper

    Oelewapper Plays vinyl instead of installing it on the floor.

    Well… You gotta do something fun, when everything is in lockdown - again ;)
     
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  13. Big Blue

    Big Blue Forum Resident

    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Ha! Yes, nothing more fun than moving a cartridge that is already perfectly aligned to a different headshell… :laugh:
     
  14. Oelewapper

    Oelewapper Plays vinyl instead of installing it on the floor.

    As long as it’s rewarding enough, it’s worth it!
    I recently bought a wall mounted headphone “stand” (all milled aluminium by Silverstone).
    It has to get mounted where one speaker is located, so I’ll have to do speaker placement all over again (my speakers have AMTs, so very directional)… but difficult/tedious things are part of any real hobby IMO.

    Just simply buying random stuff isn’t a hobby, unless you’re a woman and call it shopping :biglaugh:
     
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  15. aunitedlemon

    aunitedlemon Unity is in the pith. Thread Starter

    Location:
    Oregon
    This does look like fun, and I completely agree with you about having cartridges mounted to easily swapped headshells just ready to play. I particularly appreciate that your unit has the controls right up front and accessible. I don't want to have to take the case apart and flip dip switches internally or reach around to the back to struggle to make adjustments. Plus! That optional subsonic switch is appealing. I use a KAB-RF1 and it's always in-line and filtering. Having the option to toggle the rumble filter off or on would be cool.
     
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  16. aunitedlemon

    aunitedlemon Unity is in the pith. Thread Starter

    Location:
    Oregon
    I adorned my SL1500C w/ some Isonoe feet today. They're nice. Simply constructed but well executed. I recently got my hands on a digital level (Empire em105.9) and that thing is cool. Claimed accuracy to .1 degree. After I swapped the feet I put the level on my mat and was able to obtain a 0.0 no matter where the platter was rotated or where the level was placed on the mat. It's level, no question in my mind.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    At least 2022 is starting on a good foot sonically.
     
  17. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    Those feet look great. I decided to upgrade feet on my MK7 and nearly ordered those. I decided to try some feet from MNPCTech instead though. Price was about the same.

    MKStands also has some nice looking products. I looked at their overboots which work with the stock feet. They also have some feet that look like Isonoe on steroids...mainly designed for DJs and much more expensive but look very nice.
     
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  18. Rick58

    Rick58 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Eagle, ID, USA
    OMG I’m jonesing bad for a 1500C, whenever they’re back in stock. Wondering if the Isonoe feet required any TT base disassembly? Do the stock feet just unscrew and these screw in? The MNPCTech feet indicate removing the bottom cover, but I see those went on an MK7. Leaning toward the Isonoes. I presently have three Sorbothane hemispheres under my Thorens TD-145, works well, actually.

    Of course I’d want to upgrade from the stock 2m Red cart, ay-yi-yiiiii …! Initially thinking 2m Bronze, but now looking at MC carts. I need to find out what my P7 preamp gain is, it has a 100 ohm load for MC. Would like to not have to get another phono preamp. I guess I could get some SUTs and use the MM input. I see some carts like 1000 ohms, etc..

    Aha, found email from Parasound. MM gain is 46dB, MC is 61dB. I get good volume with my present Denon DL-160 HOMC cart, 1.6mV. Need my spreadsheet to calculate from there … :D

    PS/Edit: Actually, also thinking about getting into 78s when I get the 1500 C. The Ortofon solution seems easiest, with a 2m Bronze in one headshell and a 2M 78 in another. The cartridges weigh exactly the same, might just need to tweak the downforce slightly.

    As usual, lots to think about, but there is time to consider various options.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2022
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  19. patient_ot

    patient_ot Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    There isn't any removing the bottom cover on any new Technics turntable in order to change the feet. You probably want to lock the tonearm and remove the platter, then get a soft towel to lay the side of the TT on while you turn it vertical and unscrew the feet. You then screw the new feet in. Pretty simple.
     
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  20. Oelewapper

    Oelewapper Plays vinyl instead of installing it on the floor.

    Yes and don’t forget to unplug all the cables first.
    Because if a connector accidentally comes between the side of the turntable and the surface, it will leave an ugly mark on that side…
     
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  21. aunitedlemon

    aunitedlemon Unity is in the pith. Thread Starter

    Location:
    Oregon
    As patient_ot mentioned, no turntable disassembly required. I literally lifted each corner of my 'table up one at a time and went around unscrewing and removing the stock foot then threading in the Isonoe. Direct fit. The instructions for the Isonoe state to thread them in "6-9 mm", I just threaded them in until I felt them get a little snug, then leveled. Super easy, even with the KAB damper installed I had no trouble.
     
  22. JamsOnly

    JamsOnly Senior Member

    Location:
    North Carolina
    I picked up that level earlier this year, a great addition to my tool arsenal, and has turned my bubble levels obsolete.
     
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  23. AndyCC72

    AndyCC72 Forum Resident

    Location:
    London
    I currently run a AT OC9XML on my 1500c but am looking to add the AT ART7 to the cartridge stable.

    Ideally I want something ever so slightly on the warmer side than the OC9.

    Does anyone have any experience with the AT ART7 and so they think it might offer that additional bit of warmth?

    I don’t want anything to warm, I like detail and clarity. I’ve loved the OC9XML but want to try something a bit different, but not too different ;)
     
  24. Boltman92124

    Boltman92124 Go Padres!!

    Location:
    San Diego
    What if I'm not having an isolation problem with a 1200 M7L? I mean, I can jump up and down next to the rack and no way it's making it to the LP. Do you still adjust them for leveling like the other feet?
     
  25. aunitedlemon

    aunitedlemon Unity is in the pith. Thread Starter

    Location:
    Oregon
    If you don't feel like you're getting any vibrations through to your stylus then I wouldn't sweat it. I wasn't really having vibration issues either as my turntable is up on a wall shelf w/ an isolation platform and I remember the Isonoe's still improving the sound.
    Yes, the Isonoe's level just like the stock feet.
     

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