MC Cartridge next step up

Congrats on going for the Sumiko! I have heard good things about it. May the Blackbird sing to you!

I am just posting the following reply by the CEO of Thorens Gunter Kürten to complete the above question (Google translate again):

„The TAS1600 is basically a mix from our development in cooperation with Audio Technica. The data does not say everything about it and the pickups are therefore only partially comparable. The so-called engine is based on the ART 9. So you should decide for yourself whether you want to listen to music or have succumbed to the technical data.“

 

Hehe, the ART9 in a OC9 body, ok Gunter, guess that might be a possibility, maybe not the most likely one though

 

I did not want I interpret the reply, but I never got an answer on why the spec’s are all OC9 when there are ART9 internals inside?
I think it would have been better to state that it is based on the OC9, but perhaps with some clever modifications that make it sound better than OC9.

Now the proof of the pudding is in the tasting, anyone heard the TAS1600?

 

At over three times the cost of the AT-OC9XML here in the US, I'd think one would have to be quite a Thorens fan to give it a go

 

It is the AT OC9 XSL with a special line contact stylus, but still quite a price difference, also here in Europe (+450€).

 

Ah, you're right, it would be the OC9XSL, not the ML, which does up the cost from $549 to $729 over here (and it does seem silly to charge almost $200 extra for the SLC cut over the ML, some may even call it an inferior cut, though I've only heard it on the older OC9/III), so not 3x, just 2.33x, still a little beyond my level of Thorens fandom to give it a try, but will excitedly await your review

 

Blackbird has landed. Hope to install this week. No stylus cover, FYI.

 

Installed the Blackbird yesterday. The sound is wonderful - very transparent highs and mids . The low end is lacking a bit compared to the Eroica. Will this improve as it breaks in over the next 20-30 hours or should I tweak something.

I adjusted VTA according VPI instructions - place needle on the scale and adjust VTA until parallel. I note that most records are not as thick as the scale so the rear of the tonearm appears a little elevated when playing an album so that could be part of the issue - have not formally checked it. Weight is set to slightly above the recommendation at about 2.10 grams. If I adjust VTA using an album, VPI says weight on the scale will off by up to .40 grams.

 

The bass should come as you run it. Did you get to the web site and read the extensive manual? At this point Sumiko says to just let it run in and suffer through the changes the cart will make until she is done running in.

 

until what is parallel?
you need the top of the headshell, which is the top of the cartridge parallel to the record for "tonearm level"
do this by using a small bubble level.
1 level the platter by adjusting the feet
2 put the small dot level on top of the headshell. adjust the VTF to the cartridge recommended to compensate for the weight of the level.
3 needle in the groove of a record, adjust tonearm height until the bubble on top of the headshell is centered. this is a perfectly level cartridge to record. tonearm does not matter and is too difficult to measure or visualize accurately.
4 take the level off the hesdshell and re adjust VTF back to cartridge recommended.

 

Sorry, wasn't clear. VPI says place stylus on the weight scale and adjust VTA until tonearm is level with the platter. I use a visual gauge to determine level tonearm.

 

not accurate enough for best VTA with radical stylus profiles like your sumiko. try a small dot level and see how far off it is. half a degree is a mile.

 

You do know there is a extensive manual for the proper set up for the blackbird?

 

yes. have read it. I think the best approach is live with it for 20 hours or so and then readjust weight and vta.

 

You are most certainly free to do as you wish, but I would think the service and instructions from the manufacturer would be the best solution to bring her up to speed.

 

Interesting in reading the Blackbird manual - VPI sets things up in a different sequence and a little differently. Which one should be the primary advice- the recommendations from the turntable manufacturer or the cartridge manufacturer?

 

VPI would know less about the way Sumiko designs their cartridges. If you want the best out cart follow the Cart manufacturer

 

Went back and rechecked installation according to Sumiko instructions. Everything looks good - have weight set to 2.1 as opposed to 2.0 - VPI recommends you set weight on the high end. Sumiko recommends a 1.2 negative rake angle - not sure how I would measure that. I have VTA set parallel to the vinyl surface.

I must say this is a beautiful sounding cart. While I mentioned previously the bass sounded lacking compared to the Eroica, after a few days of listening I don't think that is the case. It is tighter and less bloated sounding. Highs and mid are so transparent! When sitting in the preferred listening chair the sound stage is centered and I am hearing pieces of recordings that I have not heard before.

I listened last to vinyl last night for about 2 hours and then streamed some music from Tidal. The vinyl with this cart sounds so much better, and I have really good DAC - RME ADI-2 FS.

 

The Sumiko reference carts are among the best in the business. You will be thrilled and amazed at what it can do. If you ever feel the desire to move up to the Starling, do it with the quickness. I guess the only concerns I have with expensive cartridges is breaking the suspension system. Im very mindful of that.

 

When you say the “highs and mids are so transparent!” What is it you mean actually? Is it that they are weak? Not present? Thin sounding?

 

I think he means they are transparent.

 

Easy to perceive or detect - definition of transparent.

 

I adjusted my sub settings a bit last night to bring the bass a little more forward with the Blackbird. After three nights of playing I can begin to hear slight changes in the sound as the cartridge settles in. Awesome cartridge!

 

Great....just let it settle in for the run in hours and don't touch it. Once done check setting to make sure they are spot on. The sound you are hearing now may not be the sound at completion. It will become more refined and more natural sounding.

 

Thinking ahead, what is the best way to clean a bare design cartridge? Have read posts on other forums where folks damaged their Blackbird trying to clean dust buildup.