Mending Records Which Jump

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by tryitfirst, May 15, 2022.

  1. tryitfirst

    tryitfirst supatrac.com Thread Starter

    Location:
    UK
    Occasionally I find an old record which plays fine except for a single glitch where the groove has become damaged in such a way that the stylus repeatedly follows a track that has been carved into the adjacent groove, either forwards or backwards. Often enough, bias adjustment isn't enough to overcome the problem, and blowing on the side of the arm isn't a permanent fix. Mostly this problem afflicts lower-amplitude compilation pressings where they've crammed as much music onto the side as possible, but it can also be due to hot pressings and mastering errors such as I found on this otherwise beautiful copy of White Light White Heat:
    [​IMG]

    It's especially annoying when it means that you can't play all the way through a cherished record.

    Examining cases of this under my son's not-quite-toy microscope encouraged me to have a go at fixing some of these occasional occurences, and I've just fixed one now so I thought I would share some information about the technique.

    [​IMG]

    First I note where the glitch occurs relative to the label while the record is playing. This morning the glitch was at 3pm [sic - a sentence I had never expected to write] - and at the beginning of track 6. Exploring the surface under the microscope revealed a couple of candidates, and I chose the one which seemed to have a bit of swarf around it. It wasn't too hard to see what the problem was. Down at this scale vinyl is like butter, so it's possible to carve the groove anew with a tool. I used an old cantilever ripped out of a Shure N97xE and some gaffer tape:

    [​IMG]

    Here is the tool under the microscope to show the scale at which you have to work:

    [​IMG]

    Because the tool doesn't have a flexible suspension it's all down to gentle dexterity. I pointed the stylus at the problem groove, lowered it very gently, and dragged it along the groove, vaguely trying to keep it in a straight line. The bottom of the groove helps with this, and after dragging the stylus along the three grooves which cross the crash-site, I gave it a spin on my deck and not only did it play without jumping, but it was almost impossible to hear where the repair was made.

    I'm sorry I didn't think to document and share this before I had done the repair, so I don't have a before/after pair of images, but have a look at the result - I think it's possible to see that the bottom of the groove has been reformed and the lips at the top of the grooves are no longer guiding the stylus back across the mountain pass:

    [​IMG]

    I've done this a handful of times now, and in each case I've converted a non-playable record into a fully playing record with no downsides.

    There are of course many caveats. Don't touch the surface with anything hard apart from the right tool in the right place. Under the microscope you can literally see the surface being scarred by every contact with anything vaguely hard. Also, don't make it worse - always be very gentle and cautious. Make sure you can see really clearly what you are doing.

    All comments and questions welcome, and I will endeavour to share what limited knowledge I have of this technique.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2022
  2. coolhandjjl

    coolhandjjl Embiggened Pompatus

    Location:
    Appleton
    Thanks for sharing. I have read that cactus needles are also good for this.
     
    The FRiNgE likes this.
  3. tryitfirst

    tryitfirst supatrac.com Thread Starter

    Location:
    UK
    I had heard of their use as cantilevers, but not as groove chisels.

    I've tried sharpening pins but it seems very difficult to generate a fine enough point, so I resort to an old stylus which works well, especially because it's at a right angle to the shaft, which makes it easy to see what you are doing.
     
  4. coolhandjjl

    coolhandjjl Embiggened Pompatus

    Location:
    Appleton
    Careful, people will start sending you their LPs to mend :agree:
     
  5. tryitfirst

    tryitfirst supatrac.com Thread Starter

    Location:
    UK
    That's ok as long as they don't want them back ;-)
     
    FJC1966, kyouki, tin ears and 3 others like this.
  6. Hi Desert Chris

    Hi Desert Chris Well-Known Member

    Location:
    92284
    I have carefully re-cut the grooves with a razor blade and a eye loop. I don't like to go to that extreme but if you have steady hands it does work.....sure beats listening to a skip or repeat over and over.
     
    Strat-Mangler likes this.
  7. harby

    harby Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, OR, USA
    Consider the actual shape of the groove: two 45 degree angles = 90 degrees. A square. Not a needle point.

    I had different idea than to use a lathe cutter tip to clear the groove of scratches and their swarf intruding on the groove: make your own needle out of a sewing machine needle.

    A sewing machine needle is more blunt and yet more pointy than an LP stylus. The way I have envisioned is to mount the needle into a dremel, and then at a 45 degree or greater angle, sharpen to a cone point on a diamond ultrafine knife sharpening block. Then cut the "face" cutting facet by simply laying flat on a vibrating sander with similar stone clamped.

    Break in the steel tip shape the way old steel needles were shaped before optimum playback, by playing at slow RPM on a junk LP first.

    Or just the right tool for the job:



    [​IMG]

    I've not had a single skip in years, even with disappointing scratches on one of several classical digital discs I recently got used. Linear tracker with no strange forces probably helps.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2022
    Aftermath likes this.
  8. Aftermath

    Aftermath Senior Member

    Any advice or new technique on this problem is always welcome. I'll try this out. Thanks!
     
  9. Oscillation

    Oscillation Maybe it was the doses?

    What do u put your album on when it’s under the scope?
     
  10. tryitfirst

    tryitfirst supatrac.com Thread Starter

    Location:
    UK
    Nothing special, just a flat piece of cardboard.
     
  11. Oscillation

    Oscillation Maybe it was the doses?

    Would be kind of cool to have an xy stage of some sort, but maybe an old TT platter...
     
  12. qwerty

    qwerty A resident of the SH_Forums.

    This video shows the groove reconstruction process as it's done under the microscope.

     
  13. tryitfirst

    tryitfirst supatrac.com Thread Starter

    Location:
    UK
    Nicely done - that's a nasty scratch.

    I think it's easier if you use an old cantilever on a stick as it guides you down the groove better. I've used a pin, but it requires more dexteral accuracy and it's easy to go wrong on the tight shallow grooves of extra long-playing records.

    What's amazing is how slippery a diamond in a groove is - you can't feel any friction - and how inaudible the repairs are, and how rugged the grooves turn out to be, in practical terms.

    It's really satisfying to fix an unplayable record.
     
    Uglyversal, GerryO and Aftermath like this.
  14. formbypc

    formbypc Forum Resident

    I've found in the past that single skips of this type, or 'pops' which last two or three grooves/revolutions have been due to debris clinging to the record.

    My technique has involved a dab of isopropyl alcohol on the affected area, swabbing with a cotton bud / Q-tip wetted with iso alcohol.

    If that didn't work, dislodging the debris with a wooden toothpick / cocktail stick, or in one severe case, a fine sewing needle
     
    kundryishot likes this.
  15. Aftermath

    Aftermath Senior Member

    If you could attach the cutting tool to something adjustable that would precisely control the lateral position on the record, such as a micrometer paired with a record clamp, you could minimize the need for manual dexterity in the process.

    Funny how we've put people on the moon but still don't have a widely available tool you can buy to reliably fix record skips. Seems like that shouldn't be the case.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2022
    WMTC and ODShowtime like this.
  16. qwerty

    qwerty A resident of the SH_Forums.

    I don't recognise what this is, it looks like stylus diamonds, but not mounted in a cantilever. Can you please elaborate?
     
  17. harby

    harby Forum Resident

    Location:
    Portland, OR, USA
    Those are lathe cutting tips, just not mounted in a cutting head. They have a sharper point than a stylus naturally, and are the full shape of the groove, top to bottom. One tilted at an angle would only scrape away at the top edge of a groove where scratches live.
     
  18. qwerty

    qwerty A resident of the SH_Forums.

    Thanks for the explanation. Where can you obtain them?
     
  19. The FRiNgE

    The FRiNgE Forum Resident

    It's those red blobs on that record, that cause the skips! :nyah:
     
  20. tryitfirst

    tryitfirst supatrac.com Thread Starter

    Location:
    UK
    Even if such were available I don't think I would use it. It's really not that difficult to do by hand IFF you use an old cantilever/diamond.
     
  21. tryitfirst

    tryitfirst supatrac.com Thread Starter

    Location:
    UK
    Before I start I clean my records with PVA, so I seldom encounter alien debris. It can happen that debris is non-soluble and stubborn, like oil paint spots for example, and as you say, careful picking can work.
     
  22. anthos314

    anthos314 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dunkerque, France
    Hi everyone,

    I have a record that has two or three forward jumps right in the first minute of side 1. When playing with antiskate the jumps are gone, but of course you can't do it as a normal listening situation. I have an old stylus I can use but no microscope, have you got a model I could use to repair my record?
    Also, is there any way I could have this done by a professional (or a dedicated forum member..?)

    Thanks for the tips!
     
  23. tryitfirst

    tryitfirst supatrac.com Thread Starter

    Location:
    UK
    I would try to do it for you for a reasonable fee, but add the shipping costs and it's probably much cheaper to buy another copy on Ebay. Of course, if it's a record which has some special value or sentimental significance then it's a different matter, but even then I would recommend learning to do this yourself as it's a useful and satisfying skill.

    You don't necessarily need a microscope - any magnifier with enough power to let you see what you're doing is good enough. Ideally you will rig up some kind of hands-free stand for it so that you can work in a relaxed manner. Once you know how to do it, it only takes a few seconds.

    Practice re-routing and then un-re-routing several grooves on a record you hate to give yourself confidence for the summit attempt.
     
  24. anthos314

    anthos314 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Dunkerque, France
    Hi, thank you very much for your quick reply! I am only answering now because I did not see your answer at first. I may send you the record actually, if you're still ok. of course we would have to pm each other concerning the fee you'd like, as your location is not that far away from mine in the end.
     
  25. tryitfirst

    tryitfirst supatrac.com Thread Starter

    Location:
    UK
    PM sent.
     

Share This Page

molar-endocrine