Michael Jackson's "Thriller" - It was Toto Album...

98?

Well, at least that beats 99...

I can't take it no more...

 

No, Toto was a household name in 1983.

 

...because they like the tune. What's not to like, really? Does it stamp and indelible impression on them of the band? No chance.

Ed

 

For about a year, they were a big deal. I was alive at that time; it was definitely no longer. My beef is the idea that they were hugely successful for a long period of time and they weren't.

Ed

 

Due to the way they were market, it's no wonder. They went the Chicago route. It didn't work out for them.

It's also interesting to note how convincing they were when it came to genre-switching. They must have driven Columbia nuts. They took "Georgy Porgy" to #18 on the R&B charts and only #48 on the Pop charts. When they switched genres like that, they did it very convincingly. "Stranger in Town" hit #7 on the Mainstream Rock charts.

Hold The Line" was a Rock tune. "Georgy Porgy" was R&B. The very next single after "Georgy Porgy" was "I'll Supply The Love" was a Rock thing. I can't imagine the promotional whiplash Columbia must have been dealing with. I'm good with doing various things but the fans can't get on the bus if they don't know what you are.

Ed

 

I just watched the "Africa" video for the first time in ages. I like it, and by late 1982 standards (pre "Billie Jean") it's not a bad clip, conceptually or visually. I didn't remember that Mike Porcaro was in it (not David Hungate), so Toto had three Porcaros at that point, which was kind of cool, as they all look sort of alike. So they had that as a visual identity. But although Paich has a likeable screen presence, he does lack a certain charisma (Jeff Porcaro definitely had the most 'star power' in Toto; he was the guy that projected 'effortless cool'). The problem is that MTV did inevitably favour acts that had a compelling frontman (like, say, Steve Perry) or even an interesting one (like Peter Cetera), but Paich (and Kimball) were just (by MTV visual standards) a bit dull on screen (although, as I say, I like Paich in the "Africa" clip). I think it's also an issue that Paich and Kimball look sort of alike, and the Porcaros and Luke are also somewhat similar types. There was not a lot of visual contrast in Toto then; not even a 'blond one', for example, or a guy who had a slightly different image. So for casual fans who just saw the video on MTV and listened to the songs on Top 40 radio, it can't have have been easy to learn who was who.
Also, is the percussionist in the video Lenny Castro?

 

No, you don't. In case you never noticed at the time, MTV had sound as well as video. People bought anything Toto because they liked the music, not the faces.

 

That's too funny. After I read your comment, I went and looked at it again too. My, but they were a plain bunch. LOL! The only thing they were missing was Christopher Cross. They had the visual presence and charisma of dried apricots in a breakfast bowl. They weren't hideous or anything like that but they had faces made for radio. After having seen that video again, I'm not entirely sure it wasn't MTV that killed them. They were nothing to look at and that didn't fly at that point.

P.S.: Yep, that's Lenny Castro.

Ed

 

Also, at Toto's peak (1982 and IV) MTV wasn't quite the cultural force it would very shortly become. It was the 'I Want My MTV' advertising campaign (which premiered in the spring of '82) and then later on Thriller that really propelled MTV towards the cultural status it would occupy for the rest of the 80s. So 1982 was transitional for MTV. In 1982 MTV didn't 'make' hits like it would in, say, 1983 and later, so it was possible for an act like Toto to have videos on MTV that (a) not a lot of people saw (because of MTV's low ratings prior to the 'I Want My MTV' campaign and the Thriller phenomenon) and (b) that didn't have a lot of influence on sales or radio airplay (as radio didn't view MTV as serious competition at that point).

 

It is quite possible that a lack of MTV appeal did affect them after IV. Once Bon Jovi hit in late 1986, MTV definitely favoured a certain type of look (and sound) in rock videos. But then, homely looking acts like Chicago, REO Speedwagon and Foreigner kept having Top 40 hits in the mid 80s more consistently than Toto. The drop off in quality from IV to Isolation was the main issue, I think. That cost them all their momentum (particularly at Top 40 radio), and then Fahrenheit didn't have the winning track to fully revive them at Top 40 radio or at retail (to platinum levels, at least).

 

I just have to wonder if they left their kids' soccer game to go shoot the "Africa" video. They're dressed like they're running errands. Mike is essentially holding his bass up to his neck which makes him look super-nerdy too. They don't look like stars in that video at all. It's like they were consciously trying to be as unflattering as possible. That's likely how they dress if they're doing studio sessions. If I'm Toto, I'm moving heaven and earth to get that video buried. LOL! It's that bad. That video alone should have killed them. It certainly couldn't have helped. It's no "Rock Me Tonite" but it's pretty bad.

That said, Bobby's exit and the lack of good tunes on "Isolation" save "Stranger in Town" likely ruined them at radio.

Ed

 

Thanks, I thought it must be. I always like putting a face to a name I've seen in the credits. I've been reading George Benson's autobiography, and in it he mentions that when he and Quincy were assembling an 'A list' team to work on Give Me The Night, Q insisted the drummer had to be John 'JR' Robinson, who he'd recently used on Off The Wall. I thought about how often I've seen Robinson's name in album credits (a lot) and how I've always liked his work, but I don't think I've ever seen him on video, and I'd barely know him in a photo. So I've been studying up on him the past few days. It's always cool to be able to identify a session musician I like; it's just the music geek in me that means I have to know who's who, and what they look like. Now I can tick Castro off my list too.

 

The video budget obviously didn't extend to a stylist, or anyone from the costuming department or hair and makeup.

 

John 'JR' Robinson's in Rufus's "Do You Love What You Feel" and the "Any Love" video.

 

They looked awful. I could have sworn that video was better than that, it's not. Had to laugh at them singing in between those books in the "library" ha.

As for Isolation, Fergie Frederiksen wasn't the best pick, he basically made Toto not sound like Toto as much as possible.

 

Thanks! They were two brilliant videos that I hadn't seen before. Chaka, wow. She was awesome then. Now I'm going to be on a serious Rufus/Chaka kick (which is never a bad thing).
As for JR, George Benson describes him in his book as 'perfection with soul', or 'the funkiest drum machine you would ever want to hear'. The guy really was technically brilliant, a really 'in the pocket' drummer, but he could definitely groove (as those Rufus videos show).

 

No problem. Chaka was awesome then, very cute too Yep, JR gave Rufus a different sound and was a big part of Quincy Jones's productions for a while.

 

Right? LOL! What was that?

They had no signature at all. He was just tenor boy du jour.

Ed

 

Didn't extend to a writer either. I'm thinking that maybe it did but the storyboard must have been smudged with blow, rendering it unreadable. They likely just decided that Dave should dress up as a post-apocalyptic postman, slated it, and off they went.

Ed

 

Check out "Random Access Memories" by Daft Punk. His drumming on that record (along with Nathan East's bass work and Nile Rodgers guitar playing) is absolutely stellar.

Ed

 

Comparing musicians like Toto to a bland pop singer like Adele is a joke. Like comparing John Coltrane to Kenny G. because Kenny G. had greater chart success.

 

Toto and Kenny G makes a good comparison though

 

Incidentally, I bet I'm the only forum member who has albums by all four of the above-mentioned artists.

 

That's true, but I also don't think there's anything wrong with lightweight pop or lightweight Smooth Jazz.

 

Nothing wrong with it but I wouldn't compare the record sales of a group known primarily for being superior musicians with a one trick pony mainstream pop singer. Miles Davis did play with Toto and wanted them as his backing band at one time although he may have been old and senile at that point.