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Michael Jackson's "Thriller" - It was Toto Album...

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by gener8tr, Feb 7, 2014.

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  1. Oatsdad

    Oatsdad Oat, Biscuits and Abbie: Best Dogs Ever

    Location:
    Alexandria VA
    Record sales don't automatically = magazine sales. Kenny G and Celine Dion moved lots of records but never appeared on the cover of "RS". And I already mentioned plenty of other contemporaries of Toto who sold as well - or better - and didn't make the cover.

    What do the Grammys have to do with being on the cover of "RS"?

    I'm not arguing "Toto was great" or "Toto was crap" or "Toto was meh". I'm simply saying that based on the magazine's track record, I don't believe that they ever offered the cover to Toto.

    If Journey didn't get the cover, I think it's highly unlikely Toto would've gotten it. Journey was more popular and better known in terms of "face value" - at least people knew what Steve Perry looked like. The guys in Toto were as anonymous to the public as could be...
     
    Murph and krock2009 like this.
  2. krock2009

    krock2009 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    Didn't Luke admit to a drinking problem a few years back? If so, that video may have shot when he was off the wagon.
     
  3. Oatsdad

    Oatsdad Oat, Biscuits and Abbie: Best Dogs Ever

    Location:
    Alexandria VA
    Toto sold a lot of records with no support from "RS" - I don't see any impact pro or con that Toto's alleged cover-refusal had...
     
  4. What makes you think there's any correlation between record sales and Grammies, and what would sell a magazine? Toto and their ilk were called "faceless" for a reason - heck, Toto were probably the ultimate faceless corporate band, and I think the editors of Rolling Stone were sharp enough to know that the people who bought "Africa" and "Rosanna" didn't care who was making the music so long as it sounded nice and smooth at the school dance or marina.

    EDIT: Ah, I see Oatsdad covered this stuff already. Well, what he said!
     
  5. hotsoup

    hotsoup Forum Resident

    Location:
    Walla Walla, WA
    Wow, I thought they did great!
     
  6. Oatsdad

    Oatsdad Oat, Biscuits and Abbie: Best Dogs Ever

    Location:
    Alexandria VA
    "I agree with Oatsdad" should be your signature! ;)

    Who ends up on a magazine cover has 100% to do with who that magazine thinks will sell copies. Actually, I take that back a little: sometimes some mags - especially political ones like "RS" - will make covers more as a "statement" than as a sales device, but most of the time, the cover subject exists because the editors think that subject will move mags. It's not a reward.

    It's like betting lines for sporting events. I think people view NFL point spreads as a prediction of who will win and by how much, but that's not the case. Point spreads are computed to make betting work in a way that maximizes profits for bookies, casinos, etc.

    That's why sometimes odds for popular teams make little sense. People will bet for their favorite without regard for logic, so Vegas has to work on the odds to make sure there are sufficient numbers of bets on the other team as well.

    And if I was a betting man, I'd bet a large sum of money that Lukather either made up the story about Toto on the cover of "RS" or he misremembered...
     
  7. PaulKTF

    PaulKTF Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
  8. DmitriKaramazov

    DmitriKaramazov Forum Resident

    Steve Lukather was absolutely awe inspiring on Joni Mitchell's Wild Things Run Fast. What a talent!
     
    bruce2 likes this.
  9. Endymion

    Endymion Forum Resident

    Location:
    Germany
    His heavy accent notwithstanding this is actually a pretty cool rendition.
     
  10. maui_musicman

    maui_musicman Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Kihei, Hi USA
    Really? Is Toto in the R&R Hall of Fame?
     
  11. PaulKTF

    PaulKTF Senior Member

    Location:
    USA
    Does being in the R&R HOF actually mean anything in so far as how impactful an artist/band were? Many people see the R&R HOF as a joke.
     
    zen, Carserguev and EasterEverywhere like this.
  12. driverdrummer

    driverdrummer Forum Resident

    Location:
    Irmo, SC
    Toto's Grammy Wins for IV was their moment in history. It's a pretty big accomplishment I must say. Some big name superstars never got a Grammy in their lifetime.
     
  13. ginchopolis

    ginchopolis Forum Resident

    Location:
    ginchopolis, usa
    Your argument fails when you refer to the editors of Rolling Stone as "sharp." ;)

    The correlation is that when an album sweeps The Grammys, and nobody knows "who they are", it's a story. And, an interesting one musically. From Silk Degrees to "Hold The Line" to the other records they've played on. My point is that it's totally feasible. Not that it was offered.

    And, concurrently, in the same way CBS (who Toto was signed to) threatened to pull all videos off MTV unless they played Michael Jackson, there's no telling what was going on politically.

    The Knack turned down Rolling Stone, too. There's certainly a precedent.
     
  14. rockledge

    rockledge Forum Resident

    Location:
    right here
    Like I said in the Bowie vs Springsteen thread, it is often more about an artists ability to surround himself with the right people than it is actually about being talented. Mr Jackson was a decent singer and an excellent dancer/performer.
    But his music was largely the result of all the fantastic people he could afford.
    Just like Bowie.
    How could ANYBODY do a bad album with Toto as their karaoke machine?
    And Quincy Jones producing. I mean damn. Anybody on this forum could do a great album with a crew like that.
     
    Carserguev likes this.
  15. PiratesFan

    PiratesFan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Chambersburg, PA
    I think Lukather's still mad that they named the band "Toto."
     
  16. Oatsdad

    Oatsdad Oat, Biscuits and Abbie: Best Dogs Ever

    Location:
    Alexandria VA
    No, they're not - what's your point?
     
  17. Oatsdad

    Oatsdad Oat, Biscuits and Abbie: Best Dogs Ever

    Location:
    Alexandria VA
    I'm sure a number of acts have declined the opportunity. I just don't believe Toto was one of them. :shrug:

    Of course, as Lukather tells it, it's impossible to prove him wrong. He set up his story in such a way that if "RS" denies it, he'll say "I told you so!"

    I guess the other members of the band could be asked - wonder if they remember it the same way...
     
  18. drbryant

    drbryant Forum Resident

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Forty year career, over forty Top 10 (US Billboard) hits, and something like 17 number ones. At the time of his death, he was the largest concert draw in the world. The secret to his success - TOTO!
     
    Sandinista likes this.
  19. MikeVielhaber

    MikeVielhaber Forum Resident

    Location:
    Memphis, TN
    Eh....I get what you're saying, but MJ wasn't just any voice. He had "it"....Thriller wouldn't been anywhere close to as successful with someone else singing. Plus he brought in the biggest hits himself. I remember watching the Bad25 documentary and the writers of "Man in the Mirror" saying Michael made that song a hit. It wasn't a hit as written....it was hit when he took the song and interpreted the vocals himself. I think Michael was extremely musically talented even though he didn't play an instrument.
     
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  20. Rosskolnikov

    Rosskolnikov Designated Cloud Yeller

    Which perfectly encapsulates the why excrement like Britney Spears is popular while geniuses like Allan Holdsworth toil in relative obscurity. Philistines.
     
  21. Rosskolnikov

    Rosskolnikov Designated Cloud Yeller

    I agree. Plus there was the zeitgeist thing working in his favor that year. Thriller is a good album. It's one of the top-selling albums of all time. But I don't think it's anywhere near my Top 100. It just caught the wave and kept riding.
    On a musical level, I actually prefer Toto IV.
     
  22. rockledge

    rockledge Forum Resident

    Location:
    right here
    I was of the impression he did play instruments, although not well enough to do so live.
    And for certain, he had "it" , it being the voice people bought his records to hear.
    He certainly had enough talent to attract the attention of Quincy Jones.
    I never much cared for the music he sang on, but there is no denying he could dance and put on a show.
     
  23. DrAftershave

    DrAftershave A Wizard, A True Star

    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    The song "St. George And The Dragon" alone is better than half the stuff on IV.
     
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  24. Lord_Gastwick

    Lord_Gastwick Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Pasadena, CA, USA
    Toto's lack of charisma and ugliness issues weren't what prevented them from acquiring the kind of respect that Lukather apparently craves. It was their albums. They weren't that good. I'm imagining that Lukather has been well remunerated over the years for his prolific session work.
     
  25. rockledge

    rockledge Forum Resident

    Location:
    right here
    I can't say I have ever noticed that Toto had any deficit of respect. A lot of people like a lot of their albums. I am not one of them, I like a couple of their albums and a few songs from each of the rest. But Toto was quite popular toward the end of the rock era. I think like all rock era bands, when other music started dominating the airwaves Toto took a back seat to newer pop music like they all did. But they never seemed to have trouble drawing a crowd or selling music.

    Much as I agree, music is still about songs. It is amazing that guys like Satriani, Holdsworth, and Vai can do what they do, but the bottom line is that just being amazingly adept at an instrument doesn't necessarily sell music. Those kind of musicians tend to have a very narrow fan base, as often as not consisting mostly of musicians, not the general public.
    I consider Steve Morse to be the smart one among them. He has sense to know that it is best to work within the context of a band that is built around songs, not around guitar wanking.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2014
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