Midlife crisis has arrived: seeking advice on building a "forever" system

"Forever system"...dude, you are freakin' hilarious!!!

 

Klipsch floorstanders, a sub, a Yamaha AS 1XXX amp, and a better TT.

 

I do not agree with this. Many times you are buying something that sounds just a bit off that it was sold. Not all the time but it does happen. Buy your forever system new.

 

10K not really that much depending on what all you are wanting. if i only had 10K to spend i would focus on used gear. for TT maybe a used rega 8 series. then id look for a used sutherland phono state. use your existing CDP as a transport and maybe get a used schiit yggy. a decent integrated, maybe parasound hInt. then see how much you have left to spend on speakers and cables. some more budget oriented speaker maybe: psb, kef ls50s w/ sub, paradigm..

you could also consider an all in one approach and do something like get some Kef LS60s... or buchardt. doing a "speaker system" would have a nice WAF.

 

What's the brick and mortar hi-fi scene where you are? Are there good stores?
I think you should spend your time to educate yourself on what is possible. Keep the credit card and check book locked up. If you can, get some recommendations on dealers and book appointments- if they ask for a budget, tell them you are prepared to spend, you want to know what is possible. A good dealer can work with that.
Though I've had a few top tier dealers since, say 1970, I'd be very wary of gurus, people who insist that what they sell is the only thing worthwhile, they have a deal you have to jump on now, etc. Finding a good dealer is harder than choosing a "forever system." You can try to do this on your own, but the variables are endless. So I think you need to learn what things you like and what things you don't. First impressions may be misleading. You may actually have to travel to hear some stuff, I don't know.
I built my systems gradually, over the years, with various strands of information and knowledge, but almost all of it came from listening ---it is very hard to make comparisons among different pieces of gear in different shops. The room, and proper scale of equipment for that room, and set up is going to be a determining factor. You could have fabulous equipment that sounds terrible in a given room or very modest equipment that sounds great.
Buy Jim Smith's book.
If you ask people on a forum for opinions, you will get them. I try to avoid equipment recommendations but if you are seeking them, get them from people who have lived with the gear and compared it to other gear. (One small difference in system or room could entirely change the equation).
I know this should be fun, but the reward is partly in the process of discovery and learning. I run two very good, very different systems, both different from each other and different from many systems others have. That doesn't mean I can't enjoy someone else's system-- but there's the rub: the more time you spend now educating your ears as to what is possible, the less money and effort you will waste later. There are hifi bugs who churn through equipment. I've had a fair amount of very good gear over the years but I'm not a churner-- somehow, and it isn't because I'm brilliant, know the most or have the best ears-- I've managed to select combinations that not only work well together, but are based on equipment I've owned for many years, some stuff going back to the early '70s and manufactured in the early '60s. The key, to me, is exposure and educating your ear as to what is possible. You should hear what a million dollars does or doesn't buy you, whether or not you are going to write that check. It's information. If you find a good dealer that you trust, they can make life way easier. There are no real bargains at the end of the day-- I'd pay more to know I have the support, loaners, equipment brought to my room for evaluation, etc. That has value to me. If you are bargain hunting and trying to find the best combination at a certain price point, you'll only be able to do that effectively if you know what the range of possibilities are. And that requires seat time.
Don't get all caught up in wire, and room treatment, etc. Yeah, it will be necessary to a degree but you'd be surprised at how much money can be wasted on the "this X, for only Y dollars, will make your system sound way better." There's a lot of hype, bias and marketing. If you must read the mags, treat them as entertainment. Most of them are not going to help you build a system. Your ears are going to help you build a system.
Good luck, have fun and don't be afraid to ask questions. You can do that without being a pest. If it were me, regardless of budget I'd want to hear what is supposed to be the "best"--not there is any one best, but just to get a reference point for starters. There are some killer systems lurking out there, just don't know your locale.

 

what components do you want included in your budget?

 

Fantastic post, thank you. I'm in southern Vancouver Island but it's not a big deal to get to Vancouver (or, if I can manage the import duties, Seattle). Here in town we have one speciality shop which is either an intimate/soft sell setting or a hub for audio snobs depending on your viewpoint... I quite like them but I know some others don't. There's another place that brings in "mass market higher end" if that makes any sense. And then the big box boys.

 

I mean that's the thing. I am assuming that I will, over the short to medium term, replace:

- current B+W 684 S2 speakers with new speakers (something with better bass and which suits the room)
- current HK450 amp with new amp (to drive the speakers) if necessary
- current Rega P1 TT with new TT and I presume a standalone phono stage assuming a non-integrated amp

I already have a sub which I'm not currently using, but might experiment with once speakers have been upgraded. I have no idea about things like pre-amps having never owned such.

10K budget is just a number pulled out of the air, really. Maybe more maybe less.

 

Here's the room: Photobucket | Make your memories fun!
I can't figure out how to post photos here, seems hopelessly complicated. But that link should work.

 

I wasted years before I heard ESL57'S

Should have bought a pair 20 years ago.
What's my point.
Judging from what you say you looking
For, they are not for you , but out there
There is your dream system
Amplifier and speakers have a special relationship
Judging from the money available I would visit dealers to try and establish
What amp and speakers would be a good starting point.
An audionote system using an OTO ppse and audionote speakers
Would be a good starting point

 

Midlife crisis you say?

I recommend a nice McIntosh system...



Inside a Ford GT...

 

Just a couple of thoughts.

I would figure out the speakers first. Jazz is not me but I gather Harbeths do well with it. Any number of other choices, Revel, KEF, Spendor, BW, etc. personally I not sure about horns unless you buy very expensive ones, but that’s just me. Whatever you do, auditioning speakers is an absolute must, even if at a dealer.

Also, I would also go with an integrated amp if at all possible. You will need semi decent cables at least and if you go separates cables will just kill your budget. Probably just audition that together with the speakers to simplify the search.

Have fun!

 

A couple year ago, already past year 60, and after coming into a little extra money, I decided to buy some of the pieces that I had wanted for decades, but could never afford. I started with some McIntosh amps. MC240, MC30's, and MC225, adding to the MC2105 I already had. I bought them at premium prices from Audio Classics because not only did I know they would be great, but also they were restored, they cane with warranty, and I knew that in the shape they're in, they will not only not lose their value, but will appreciate. So not a bad investment either. I also bought a McIntosh MX110 and C11 pre's, some Klipsch Cornwall's and La Scala's, both from '77, and a Thorens TD-124 turntable.

My point is think about not only what makes sense for you, but perhaps that dream piece, or pieces, that you always wanted, or wanted to try. Indulge in something really special. Now would be the time to do it.

Good luck and have fun!

 

The person(s) recommending setting up existing system in new space and adding acoustic treatments give sound advice.

when you get that dialed in you will know the areas to improve.

going used or demo is a great way to save money.

I’ve been a fan and customer of Frank van alstine for many years. He has mono blocks that the reviewers are ecstatic about M 225s. They are balanced connections only to preamp. New are $3500 a pair

a used preamp idea is Bel Canto Pre2P. I had the 6 channel version and this is identical with 4 additional channels for surround. The tonality of the midrange and high end is beautifully pure. And it has balanced XLR ours to mate with the AVA m225 amps. I had to pay a lot of money to better it. The “P” model has a well regarded phono preamp on board. About $1,000 on used market


You can get it without the phono capability and add an outboard phono pre. Hagerman has them starting for a couple hundred bucks , the Bugle, and it punches far, far above its price point, especially if you roll in some interesting op amps. Next step up is cornet and they puts tubes into the vinyl chain. I had one of these too and it’s NiCE!

lots of good turntables out there. I’m a huge fan of Well tempered Amadeus. Used market about $1500.

Add a cart for $1000. Dynavectors are popular with Well Tempered ; I am a big big fan of Grado wood body models.

That puts us at $7500 which leaves plenty of money for speakers. If you can find a pair of VMPS RM30 speakers, you will step up to very, very nice transducers. Only available used. The designer/builder passed away 10 years ago.

but they will support extremely capable electronics. See my profile. And the electronics I suggested are extremely capable. I own, have owned or heard in personal systems all of it.

Cables? I’d suggest not spending much at this point. They can provide notable changes to your sonic profile if your system is resolving enough and if you are able to discern the tonality differences. We all hear uniquely!

some links

www.Avahifi.com
Www.RenoHiFi.com
www.hifishark.com
Www.USAudiomart.com
Www.haglabs.com
Dynavector

 

10K USD, well-spent, should get you a heckuva nice system… no worries there.
.

 

I’d get pretty much what I have…Cornwalls, Technics 1200, PrimaLuna EVO integrated and a Sugarcube w/integrated phono preamp.

 

also

www.Gradolabs.com

Btw, I included Reno hifi - they are a dealer for Pass Labs. They take in lots of cherry units on trade. Give them a call. They are fantastic to work with.

it’s nice you are getting a dedicated space for listening. Makes a difference.

one thing about wire that I do recommend out the gate:

is it possible to run a dedicated 20 amp line to feed your system? Getting all connected outlets on the same line cuts noise. (Xlr balanced connections help too)

As your system gets better a big part of the battle is cutting background noise. I don’t use surge protectors because they add hash to the Sonics. If bad weather is forecast I unplug.

 

Go listen to systems, and buy used. Don't buy used simply because it's cheaper, buy used because (inevitably) when you end up with a component you aren't particularly fond of or that doesn't have the synergy you're looking for, you can recover your money.

Personally I'd go separates (amp and pre) over integrated, lots more options for power and ability to tailor it more to the rest of your system.

 

So true!

 

Duh, i meant Aria, phono preamp.

 

I know I said I wouldn't name specific gear, but I'm going to make an exception: Graham Slee phono preamps. I mention them because the company has a free loaner program; sign up, and you will receive a Graham Slee phono preamp to try out in your own system for a little while. The only cost or commitment is that you then ship it on to the next person in line. There's no obligation to buy. A lot of Forums denizens like Graham Slee products--I'm one of them--but the virtue here is that you could try out a very good separate phono preamp to get an idea of what one can do for you. It would set a point for comparison if/when you want to explore others, and, who knows, it might turn out to be what you want for your eventual system.

One other point I'll mention: if you are shopping for a new turntable, as a jazz lover you may want to consider one with a 78 speed. Not to play antiques, but because a little company in Virginia called Rivermont Records has, for some years now, been issuing vinyl microgroove stereo 78s of--traditional jazz and a bit of ragtime. (I've written about some of them here: [TNT-Audio Vintage column] A Brief Guide to Edison Cylinder Phonographs - part 3 ; ignore the reference to Edison in the link.) The music is attractive, and the recording quality is great. Not enough that lack of a 78 speed would be a "deal breaker," but if you are considering two otherwise comparable turntables and one has 78, having access to the Rivermont issues would be a point in its favor.

 

Aldo consider that the older RP6 can be purchased used for half the price. You can find them tricked out with an aftermarket sub-plater and an Exact cart.

I do have a preference for a 2M cart. Though the Exact is a MM cart, the stylus is not user replaceable. On the 2M, it is and replacing the stylus will give you different sounding options, while maintaining the same cart body.

Buy used! You can get $20k worth if gear for $10k!

I have bought quality gear right here from other forum members.

I have also sold quality gear right here to other forum members.

Keeping things in the family, so to speak...

Might well be, as another member commented.

Having a large enough room grants you many things in audio.

Having wife approval grants you much more!

Many members here make compromises. This is a normal thing because not everybody is wanting big speakers in their living room. Of those that do, their wives usually do not!

If you do not have these restrictions, then really large speakers do produce a really large sound. It is not about volume, it is all about scale!

As a note, a curious coincidence, I have met two of the posters in your thread.

 

I forgot to say that "forever" now meaning " never ending", by recent experiences.
With more time (and some money left), this hobby can cost a lot and "never ending".
Such a very nice perspective .

 

Buy (make) a Leach amplifier and buy a separate preamplifier with all your needs, including a MM/MC phono stage. Please see... What Is A Preamp? A Beginner’s Guide To Using Separates In Their Stereo System - YouTube
Turntable...Try to buy Sony PS-4300. SONY PS-4300 PHONO high fidelity test - YouTube

 

Endless Perspectives.