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DCC Archive Multiple Master Takes Released as Hit Singles

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by luke j. chung, Oct 4, 2001.

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  1. luke j. chung

    luke j. chung New Member Thread Starter

    I don't know how many members of the DCC Forum are into this as I am, but I've always been fascinated by the simultaneous release by record labels, both big and small, over the years of multiple takes of a recording as the official single. An example of this exists in the a/b comparison of the DCC Gold release of the Everly Brothers' "Let It Be Me". Most of the other domestic CD releases of this song use an entirely different master take of this recording, which also includes a glaringly obvious dropout caused by oxide shedding in the 2nd verse ("Don't take this Heaven from one..."). Another prominent example of this is B.J. Thomas' "Raindrops Keep Fallin' On My Head", which also was released on 45 using 2 different takes nationally, with the 2nd take having a noticeably longer fadeout. Just curious how many fellow board members
    (including Steve Hoffman) have noticed these examples and others. When this happens, it must be a bitch for remasterers to decide which take to use when both were officially "the hit version". :D

    [ October 04, 2001: Message edited by: luke j chung ]
     
  2. Grant

    Grant Back to the 60s!

    Location:
    United States
    Yes, I follow the issue. It's a big issue for me because I collect 45 single versions AS they originally commercially appeared.

    But I think the term you use, "take", isn't always the case. Sometimes the song is just mixed differently. Things get screwey from the studio to the pressing plant.
     
  3. RetroSmith

    RetroSmith Forum Hall Of Fame<br>(Formerly Mikey5967)

    Location:
    East Coast
    Altho, they are MANY songs where the 45 release was differen than what appeared on the LP. Del Shannons "Runaway" is a good example. The 45 version (mono) and the LP version (stereo) are different takes entirely.

    So is "Midnight Mary".....the 45 had female backing vocals that didnt make it to the LP version.
     
  4. Sckott

    Sckott Hand Tighten Only.

    Location:
    South Plymouth, Ma
    Boston's "Piece Of Mind", thr 45RPM version is very different to the LP version. I think many have said it's the Demo that made it to pressing for that single. Vocal isn't as good as the LP verison, IMHO. Ah, the bananna patch we call the recording industry.
     
  5. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    "Do You Love Me" by The Contours. The original hit single (I guess) was recorded in mono only. When it came time for the stereo LP version, the mono backing track was used, but the lead and background vocals were different. Boy, does the stereo performance of that song suck!

    "Can't You See That She's Mine" by the Dave Clark Five. Different versions, the hit single and the album version.

    There are a zillion more: Love Me Do, Time Is On My Side, etc.
     
  6. Grant

    Grant Back to the 60s!

    Location:
    United States
    Steve, I inintentionally upset a whole record company AND message board because a certain record label released the wrong version of a Spyder Turner single, "Stand By Me". They released an edit of some version but I had the original mono single. They did not even come close to matching it and everyone claimed they could not hear such an obvious mismatch.

    To this day I doubt that they never really listened to the actual single or that they won't admit that the differences are substantial because the CD is already out there.

    [ October 04, 2001: Message edited by: Grant T. ]
     
  7. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    It might keep them on their toes though... :D
     
  8. Grant

    Grant Back to the 60s!

    Location:
    United States
    I don't think they will ever be able to listen to that track again without being reminded that there is always going to be somebodyout there who remembers how some obscure single sounded...
     
  9. FabFourFan

    FabFourFan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Philadelphia
    Hmm, really?? Weird. I've always thought that the version of CYSTSM on the RETURN US LP was the same version as the US single...

    (There is a _stereo_ CYSTSM that is different from the original single and original lp releases. However, this was one of the tracks DC remixed for stereo in the 70s.)
     
  10. RetroSmith

    RetroSmith Forum Hall Of Fame<br>(Formerly Mikey5967)

    Location:
    East Coast
    Just to clear uf the issue on "Cant YOu See That Shes Mine".....there is only one master multi. The LP version is a straight mono mix off the 4 track. The 45 version was THAT MIX, plus an overdubbed drum track, and some vocal additions.The Basic track was the same on both, its NOT an alternate take.
    The stereo was a remix of the 4 track multi in 1971. Trust me, I'm a DC5 FREAK!!
    Mikey
     
  11. RetroSmith

    RetroSmith Forum Hall Of Fame<br>(Formerly Mikey5967)

    Location:
    East Coast
    For Steve Hoffman:

    Steve is the "correct" 45 version of Love Me Do and Ps I Love You on the "Red and Blue" Cds? You had mentioned the only place it was was on the 1979 reissue 45...is that still true? Or did the right versions end up on "1"?? thanks!
    Mikey
     
  12. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    By "correct", I just meant from the correct tape, right?

    Well, I don't know about the red & blue CD's. I'd have to hear them again. So much signal processing on there, it doesn't really matter.

    I think the Beatles CD EP box (NOT the singles box) is the only place to hear these two songs correctly on compact disc. On the CD singles box, they are out of phase and swishy because the mastering engineer did "no no number one", and played them back on a stereo machine and then combined the two channels by hitting his "mono" button. Fuc*ed up the entire thing.

    Now, the original versions of "Ask Me Why" and "Please Please Me" have NEVER been released on CD, only on the original Parlophone British 45 pressings, and the late 1970's Parlophone reissue pressings. What is different about them? Just a touch of echo on them, no more. The mono British LP versions on the other hand were redubbed with double the echo. These versions are always the ones used for every CD reissue, even though they were not the actual hit versions. Give a listen to the reissue Parlophone 45 of "Ask Me Why" sometime, and gasp....

    [ October 08, 2001: Message edited by: Steve Hoffman ]

    [ October 08, 2001: Message edited by: Steve Hoffman ]
     
  13. Joel Cairo

    Joel Cairo Media Doctor (& Video Gort) Staff

    Location:
    Portland, Oregon
    Mikey:

    I believe you'll also find it (the original single version of "Love Me Do") on the "Past Masters 1" CD.

    As far as I know, though, whenever EMI trots out an "official" collection of their singles, they always use the "Andy White" version, with Ringo on the tambourine.

    On a related note, EMI swore that they found that original single version in the form of a tape master that was mistakenly filed at a pressing plant... does anyone else think that they um... "misspoke" themselves?

    It sure sounds like a cleaned-up transfer of a 45 to me.

    -Joel Cairo

    [ October 08, 2001: Message edited by: Joel Cairo ]
     
  14. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Are you sure? I've read that after the Rarities disc came out in the early '80s (which used a bad disc dub), a collector sent EMI a near mint copy of the single, which was used on Past Masters 1.

    Also, Mikey, keep in mind that P.S. I Love You is only available "normally" on the PPM CD - it's not on any of the comps. The Red CD and 1 both use the Andy White version of Love Me Do, each processed in a slightly different way.
     
  15. RetroSmith

    RetroSmith Forum Hall Of Fame<br>(Formerly Mikey5967)

    Location:
    East Coast
    Thanks Luke, I know youre the man when it comes to the Fab Four (kind of like me and The Ventures)

    Anyway.....I screwed up my post, Steve got it right...what I'm lloking for are the original 45 mixes of PPM and AMW that Steve mentioned. Luke, short of finding and original Parlaphone 45 or late 70s reissue, is there another way?

    thanks,
    Mikey
     
  16. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    As far as those songs go, Steve would no better than I would. I'd say listen to him!
     
  17. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    No other way. For some reason, the EMI dudes never went back to the original 45 rpm master tapes (the first generation tapes) for those two songs. The reels are probably marked "do not use" or something. Or, the good folks at EMI just don't realise that those are the originals, not the ones spliced into the mono LP master.

    Bummer, eh? :mad:
     
  18. RetroSmith

    RetroSmith Forum Hall Of Fame<br>(Formerly Mikey5967)

    Location:
    East Coast
    Thanks, Steve-O.

    Actually, I had heard elsewhere that the original first gen Beatles tapes (the one that still exist, anyway) are all "forbidden" to use. EMI is probably afraid of damage to their cash cow!! I guess, then, that a mint Parlaphone 45 is the next bext thing to the master. Now all I have to do is find one!!

    Mikey
     
  19. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    If EMI is forbidding their tapes to be used, then they might as well be in the trash. What good are they otherwise?

    Besides, I don't think that's the case, or everything EMI releases on The Beatles would be from a dub....God knows they sound like they are, but I know they are not.
     
  20. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    No, that's not true. While things *have* come from copies (notably Pepper - I think the master was missing when they did the CD), there's certainly nothing saying the masters can't be used for releases.

    On the other hand, the masters can't be removed from Abbey Road. That's probably what you're thinking of.
     
  21. Joel Cairo

    Joel Cairo Media Doctor (& Video Gort) Staff

    Location:
    Portland, Oregon
    Luke:

    Yeah, the press releases at the time of the "rediscovery" of the original single version of "Love Me Do" all stuck to the "mis-filed tape" story. I'm not sure why they thought it was important to present it that way, but they did...

    But it's pretty clearly a dub from a clean 45 (whatever the source of the disc that was used), as we pointed out earlier.

    -Joel Cairo
     
  22. FabFourFan

    FabFourFan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Philadelphia
    Thank you! I never realized that the single had overdubs! Is it that obvious? :-o

    Thanks again. I learned something today! :)
     
  23. RetroSmith

    RetroSmith Forum Hall Of Fame<br>(Formerly Mikey5967)

    Location:
    East Coast
    Hey FabFOurFan:

    Dont feel bad...its not obvious at all. For a long time, I was convinced that the 45 version of CYSTSM was a different take. It took a lot of very close listening to acertain the truth. A big Problem I had was that my local oldies station is WCBSFM here in Ny...and they ONLY played the straight mix without the overdubs, which means they dubbed their "play copy" off the Epic "Greatest Hits" Lp that everyone else had!! It wasnt till I got the "Glad All Over Again" Lp in the mid 70s (can it really be hat long ago?) that I knew there was even a difference. Personally, I like the straight version better, I think it swings!!
    Mikey
     
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