I appreciate your POV, but labeling people "CT's" does no one any favors. In some circles, it's a tactic to discredit people before any information is even debated. I'm not saying you're doing that, but the acronym bugs me.
Let me be honest with you(cause you have liked and quoted one of my posts) I am one of those that don´t like the song , in my earlier posts I even , hurriedly, dismissed completely the lyrics as indulging in nostalgia for the sake of it , in that respect I have to rectify my mistake ,but my opinion of the whole thing does not change a bit : that the lyrics have a meaning does not mean that they have artistic merit , if you take them as a poem the popular culture references are too many and tiresome , the rhymes ,maybe on purpose, are cheap but cheap nevertheless ; the only way they could take flight is on the wings of a good tune and a competent singer and well , that´s not the case( if it were, the caterpillar lyrics maybe could turn to butterfly)... but that´s my opinion , don´t think too bad of me , I´m in confinement here in Spain( two weeks and counting ) I hope it´s not your case .Peace.
See my post above -- I'm not a "CT," and I have no idea how the magic trick was pulled off. I'm continuing to follow the case, and the facts lead me to believe that Oswald was, as he told reporters, The Patsy (for real, not "like Patsy Cline"). It sounds like you've already passed final judgement, and settled into the LN bible study group, i.e., those who feel safe embracing the works of Posner, Bugliosi, Myers, et al. Give yourself an 'A' for effort in typing up those questions (seen 'em all before) but they're meaningless -- as I said before, those who controlled the evidence also controlled the narrative. If you've never heard of planted/falsified evidence, coerced witnesses, railroaded suspects, or investigative cover-ups, then you might want to broaden your horizons. See Innocence Project; see also: Richard Jewell.
Well, the performance and the overall vibe of the track are certainly what I like best about it. I like the mood of the lyric, too, but I don't know about the symbolic weight. L.
This all reminds me of the saying that goes something along the lines of, “conspiracy theorists believe that the possibility of a fact equates to the reality of that fact.”
It is interesting that this track and the new James Bond theme have appeared at much the same time, give or take a month or so. Didn't think the Bond theme hit home for exactly the same reason that I think this one does. The 007 theme did need a strident tune and instrumentation to match the expectation of the style of film it is introducing while the Dylan song very definitely does not. The piano and sparse strings form a cradle for the words. That is what I was listening to, the backing was there just to add a little ambience. The nature of Bob's voice and delivery I know can divide opinion, but it held me gripped on first listen and the subsequent ones. I think it works here. That is not to say I don't enjoy his more upbeat and instrumentally complex arrangements in other songs. Horses for courses. But this of course is all personal taste. There have been a few negative comments about Tempest in this thread, so I played it today for the first time in a while and thoroughly enjoyed it. What is great though is that we have more than 50 pages of comment and debate in a couple of days. That is impressive in anyone's book. And it has mostly been constructively argued either pro or con. While we are all in lockdown that is a great way to keep the problems of the world a bay for a while. Cheers everyone and stay safe.
Its leads nowhere unless you believe someone involved in the cover up made sure to send out a mono to point out it was a cover up. This was the early days and he didn't know about the 100's of conspiracy theories yet to come.
My point is that I am seeing the symbol in a completely different light. It is not carrying any weight. It's actually letting go of the weight. Dylan is emptying the mythology - decanting it like a bottle of wine. To be a bit clearer, the purpose of being so cliche is to undermine the idea of cliche. I keep thinking about people - if any - who might hear this song in retrospect of a couple hundred years. What is cliche to us will be history to them. Dylan reads old books. He knows how the works that often lean less toward innovation and more toward mastering the genre with a view toward posterity often succeed as a document of a time more than the works best beloved by people of that time. He's not looking at you and me. He's looking off into a future he feels may have only been an illusion all along.
Blah blah blah. Oswald was young, aggressive, intelligent, outspoken, disturbed, aggrieved, desperate for attention, and a very good shot. Far, far more adept with a rifle than your average layman. He'd tried to shoot an important gov't official just a few months before, and just barely missed. Like a career .250 hitter who goes 5-for-5 with two homers and 8 RBI in one game, Lee realized his dream on Nov. 22, 1963. Everything went his way that day, just the way he planned. He reminds me very much of modern mass killers. A man ahead of his time. If Oswald had missed Kennedy completely, and blown John Connelly's head off, there would be no conspiracy theories at all. None whatsoever. Again, when I was younger, more impressionable and idealistic, I didn't think Oswald did it. Richard Jewell? Please. Totally different circumstances. One case has nothing to do with the other.
So powerful. His lyrics about President Kennedy's death, brings tears to my eyes as I imagine the horror for him and Mrs. Kennedy as he lay dying in her lap. Dylan at his best. Who said he didn't have it any more. I'm immediately struck that people will try to figure out the meaning line by line for ever more. Similar to American Pie by Don Mclean. An instant classic.
What’s funny is that people that use the term “conspiracy theorist” also believe the possibility of a fact equates to the reality of that fact.
Wait a minute. If you’re not presenting any evidence, doesn’t that mean you are standing behind a straw man?
Dylan seems to have become a security blanket for boomers and others. Good art doesn't come out of this.
A CT has people who will shift the story to keep it in the air, whenever any facts come in that don't support the CT. CT is more important than facts to CT supporters. Check out videos of broadcasters who have shifted on corona virus and even have been gaslighting the public about it. Conspiracy theories are self justifying and amorphous. Whenever the story changes the theories change. Is this a familiar pattern? "The purpose of being so cliche is to undermine the idea of cliche" ? Isn't there a contradiction in treating Dylan both as a quasi-religious figure, and also putting words into his mouth?
Still very much in love with this gift from Planet Bob. Been a bit of a PR masterstroke too - lot of global attention, probably more than Fallen Angels or Triplicate ever got. In this case that's justified in my book as this new song has real artistic resonance. Early days but think it will endure and be remembered as a major late period statement. One other thing: I've gone from regarding the music as being gentle and ambient in nature to thinking it's mesmerizingly beautiful in its own right and a new departure for Bob.
which is further down the road because you have the evidence to back up your opinion CTs work off of the basis of debunking that evidence……the reality is if one thing didn’t happen another did so what was the other thing and where is that evidence?
Yeah, what if you were that dude “Slim” with “the telepathic mind”? He’s doubling down on the internet conspiracy theory.
That's an interesting idea, but I'm having trouble seeing what signals that in the song and the performance. What indicates the sustained irony? L.
I'm an English teacher by training. I'm not attributing anything to Dylan other than in an offhand postulation. To focus on a figurative tool and bring attention to it can be done for the purpose I suggest. I'm not in your pissing war. I'm here to discuss the song.
Unclear as to how you read "irony" into my comment. So, I don't want to explain without a bit more context. Thanks.
I made it through one complete listen, and I’m done. I think Bob called this track “unreleased” for a reason. This probably would have been part of a future BS series addition. Maybe Bob decided to contextually-kill two birds with one stone by releasing “Murder Most foul” now? That’s my theory, anyway. Didn’t he say, “how now, brown cow” in this song? I don’t know, man. I can think of better ways to kill seventeen minutes of my time. The song plays like a slow motion short film about my death or something. I just can’t see wanting to listen to MMf twice. And it’s not alright. So, whatever.
