Spector also had a lot of PTSD from the loss of his father and his abusive mother and sister. That may have also informed his prefectism and need for control.
it's possible. also maybe some artists who never made it or tried, end up getting broken by some life sucking 9-5 desk job, maybe another factor
Would Asperger's/Autism be considered a mental illness because there's a lot of musicians with that. Bruce Springsteen has been open about his struggles with manic depression in his book.
Technically, yes. Asperger's/Autism is a Neurodevelopmental disorder. Manic depression (or Bipolar disorder) is a mood disorder.
Do you remember your source for that? I've always been curious how much permanent damage Landy's drugs had on Brian. Years ago, a doctor (who was anonymous; maybe he wasn't even a doctor) posted on a Beach Boys' message board that, while the drugs Landy administered to Brian were undoubtedly powerful, mind/behavior-altering, and the dosages were probably excessive, they would NOT have permanent effects. Yes, it would take significant time to...recover...from them, but, they were not the kind of meds that would cause permanent brain damage. Don't misunderstand, I'm not implying that is correct, but I would like to know (accurately) what the drugs and dosages were, and if they are the type that would affect Brian 20-30 years later.
thanks PID! many of us had friends whom we advised "i really wouldn't get ****ed up tonight, you turn into something that is unpleasant and often violent" and some listened and some just went ahead anyways... and some of them turned it into a lifestyle.... i dunno....
Indeed. I've never been a fan of the whole line that taking recreational drugs causes mental illness, personally I think it's more that it accelerates the process or worsens what is already there. It certainly doesn't help those with a pre-existing condition at all, and ironically a lot of people that suffer from undiagnosed (or diagnosed) mental health conditions are drawn to taking recreational drugs in the first place as a way of coping. I think those are susceptible to becoming mentally ill will develop signs of mental illness eventually even without taking recreational drugs as the condition is already there, either in a mild form or lying dormant. If it wasn't a recreational drug experience acting as a trigger, it would be something else.
I'm also not a fan of the theory that taking recreational drugs makes a person creative. I think either a person is creative or they're not and whatever intoxicant they're on (or not) is irrelevant. But that's a whole 'nother conversation.
While it's entirely plausible that there are many musicians (known or otherwise) that suffer from mental illness, and this would make sense given that a motivation for creating art (music or otherwise) is to make sense of how one is feeling (or to make sense of ones surroundings on whatever scale), I think it would be foolish to say that all musicians suffer from mental illness. People from all walks of life suffer from mental illness, it's just people have a tendency to focus on mental illness in the arts because a mental illness/condition is highly likely to influence the art of someone with a mental illness/condition. As conversations about mental illness have snowballed and gained traction over the years I've often found myself looking back on musicians of yesteryear and wondering how many of them had an undiagnosed mental condition or illness. I suspect more than you or I would think.
Agreed. A spliff puts me in the mood to be creative and frees the brain up some, but isn't the creativity itself.
I watched drunk driving stop being cool and no excuse for actions committed under the influence, even if there is a very limited mind of criminal intent, and responsible chain of events that does not fly in other types of criminal law....
I’ll do some investigating. I read an online article several years ago that dealt with Brian’s conservatorship and it mentioned him being treated at UCLA medical center with some comments from the team involved. I don’t remember it mentioning any drugs or doses (which would have been a bit more in depth than a typical news article would delve). I’ll see if I can find the article and post a link here.
Marvin and his father had issues his whole life, according to his mother whom he adored, the father never cared for him and the day he died both he and his dad were high, Marvin on drugs his dad on liquor.. and argument ensured a gun was pulled and we know the rest, Marvin's cocaine use was out of control at the end of his life, and so was his dad's alchoholism.
It may be time to differentiate between mental illness, personality disorders, & the autism spectrum. Not as a diagnosis of anyone, yet, for clarification to help put this thread into perspective.
While his case seems severe, I honestly think most artists are in touch with things on a deeper level than the average human. I'm not saying they have a super power or anything, but there is such a personality trait out there called a "Highly Sensitive Person". Won't explain it here, but look it up if interested. They do tend to become introverts, thinkers, artists etc Some artists may just develop their senses differently as they seek inspiration, observe things internally and externally and try to make sense of it. Some artists are indeed tortured souls looking for a way to express the anguish they are experiencing. Some people choose to drown this in drugs or alcohol, some use art, some of course use both. Also, there is a type of person seeking validation from performing. I'd say most performers. The majority of people in the world have no desire to get on stage. Performers crave it. It comes with very high highs, and very low lows. You need support around you to navigate it, and you also need mental health tools of your own to keep this in balance. Not many are good at it and usually why drugs become part of the deal. The drugs than exacerbate the existing problems. You also get enablers at the level. People that want you high or think you're better on drugs. Whatever it might be. It all kind of creates a toxic swirl. Crosby is one that said drugs don't really help the creative process. They shut you down. I like drugs, but I never really feel creative on them. I do feel things differently, when once off them I can have a different perspective than I did before. I am unfamiliar with psychedelics, and for as much of a positive trend they are getting in culture right now, there are a lot of high level horror stories out there. Jim Gordon, Brian Wilson, Pink Floyd guy? Who knows how many others. Who knows the real root cause behind this and I am not going to figure it out.
Who the heck wants to be normal anyway? What does normal even mean? I don't think that putting a label on every human eccentricity or unusual perception is particularly normal. That's weird behaviour right there. What might get you locked up in a loony bin in our culture might get you revered as some sort of shaman in other cultures.
Peter Green was fine once he stopped taking prescribed Largactyl. Syd Barrett never had any diagnosis any kind. Based on everything I've read over the years he got a bit burnt out in his early 20s and recovered to live a quiet, peaceful life away from the music business which he wanted no part of. Seems to me people struggle to understand why he wouldn't want to jump through all the hoops required to be famous, therefore he must have been mentally ill/an acid casualty. I think a lot of people make the mistake of seeing a snapshot in time and assuming it was permanent. Have you never been under the influence? If you have, I presume you sobered up...? Clearly some high profile musicians have genuinely had mental illness, but to see the music press/industry fetishise it to sell magazines, books and albums shows a complete lack of empathy for people that are genuinely struggling. It's disgusting really, but no great surprise.
haha. I think, atleast for me, we're discussing mental health that leads to negative consequences, ie depression, anxiety, harm, death etc. Everything else I don't care about. Just don't like seeing people suffer or cause pain to others, and curious as to why they fall into artistic lifestyles so often.
Precarity exposes mental health issues. The lives of artists (and sports people) are by their very nature precarious and come with endless judgement and extremes of approval and rejection. Peripatetic work lives lend themselves to self medication and inconsistent health care. They are not artists because of their mental health issues but in spite of them. Work life balance is non existent.
Yeah. Maybe I'm just vying for a deeper discussion. I guess my "illness" is to question everything, which can get fatiguing at times. Perhaps to be an artist, rather than a technician, you have to be capable of thinking outside of the box, and thinking outside of the box can perhaps have consequences for mental health.
Yes, as the years go by this annoys me more and more, but from what I can glean the music press (or whatever's left of it) have been increasingly showing signs that they think perhaps romanticising mental illness is not particularly a good look or a good idea.
