I’ve dealt with mental issues for decades and about 90% of this thread is completely misinformed. Syd Barrett didn’t lose his mind he had genetic schizophrenia which doesn’t present itself until someone’s (who’s generally male)late teens - early 20s. It’s hard to know if drugs contributed or accelerated it - the medical community has pushed that for years as a deterrent. He was treated with lithium that basically slows your thought process and metabolism down which leads to weight gain. That’s it.
it’s medically proven. Pads are placed on both sides of the frontal lobe, induces a seizure and damages the part of the brain that controls everything that contributes to your personality. Some doctors still claim it works.
Certainly. However, the opening comment (see below) focuses on well known musicians. Those are the ones I had in mind although I didn't specify this in my comment.
That line about “Syd took a trip” still annoys me to this day. Rock journalists that could spend 15 minutes online looking into schizophrenia, could stop pushing these myths that don’t respect people with these disorders. It has been suggested that trauma can trigger genetic schizophrenia earlier. But it would have been more than a weekend away with some hippies on LSD (even with the insane amount they supposedly gave him) that triggered his schizophrenia. The guy was put into the spot light very young and very fast - a lot of pressure for someone only just into their 20’s.
Truthfully, medical science admits they only understand about 40% of how mental illness works - something worrying about that is how do they know it’s 40% if they don’t understand it.
Even then they were lucky to be able to make a living from their advocation, inclination, talent, etc., as most don’t. And one could possibly posit that in their obsessiveness of pursuing their craft they may have neglected developing their fuller selves which could have better weathered the pitfalls of life(some do as they age, others never got that far).
His solo albums were a few years after he left Pink Floyd. He doesn’t sound like he had got over it yet judging by the banter on them.
Regardless of what anyone here actually knows, or believe they know, there is no 'intrinsic' link between being a great musician and having mental illness. It's a quaint romantic notion, this connection between artistic ingenuity and madness. The supposed 'connection' that the psychiatrists I used to know theorized was that siblings of people with what's known as bipolar disorder were thought to be higher functioning on average than most people. It was also thought that in a hypomanic state the brain is capable of making unusually creative jumps and connections between ideas. I used to work on the inpatient unit where Robert Lowell and John Nash had been treated at McLean Hospital, even have a souvenir locked razor that they both held. The one musician I know who has managed to have a career and a diagnosis of schizophrenia is trumpeter Tom Harrell. Anyone who's made it will tell you their illness was something to be overcome and compensated for. Does great art require suffering and being different? That's a different question.
So the pressure of stardom had more impact than LSD does on the brain’s Serotonin 5 HT2A receptors as a pathway towards a Schizophrenic break?
He was actively using mandrax amongst other things when he recorded those albums... If you filmed me when I was off my face, would that be a fair and truthful representation of me once I'd sobered up...? Or a snapshot of a temporary moment in time?
So what, we just list them or rank them like most threads on here? Nick Drake - drugs, depression, death Sinead O'Connor - big sudden success, annoyed Catholics, breakdown, medicated for life, severe episodes Richey Edwards - disturbed young man, self harmer, missing presumed dead Danny Kirwan - dropped out of Fleetwood Mac before they hit the big time, and kind of struggled. See also Jeremy Spencer, Bob Welch and of course, Green. I've read that both Christine and Stevie also struggled with drink and drug abuse, and had some difficult 'missing years'. Folk guy, American/Canadian? Came over to London similar time to Paul Simon. Released one legendary album, then sadly spent years in a sanitarium. Sorry, forget the name I was wondering, if Clozaril is so effective, how come Mark Chapman is still incarcerated? In the UK, killers generally get around 20 years, out earlier with good behaviour. Found criminally insane at trial (unfit to plead), you could be looking at around 7 years in a secure psychiatric unit. Do we think a pacifist like John would really endorse putting a mentally ill man behind bars for life?
Dat's the one partner! Sad story indeed Regarding Syd, I read they were putting the acid in his food and drink over weeks, in effect, he never came down. Monstrous.
Exactly! We don’t know potency and purity, anything that can pass the brain/blood barrier has to be taken very seriously. Those not of those times do not remember how reckless people could be with spiking food, drink, clothing. tissues, etc., on the unsuspecting the results could be deadly (in how they did or didn’t handle it). Once speed (STP) got involved, some never came back (from their trip). I think 3 generations removed, there is a soft peddling and naivety about LSD’s pervasiveness and neuropsychological impact. It wasn’t all rainbows for everybody.
Acid doesn't work like that. You effectively build up a tolerance to the effects for a several days at a time before you can have an effective trip again. Another myth busted...
Creativity and mental disorder: family study of 300,000 people with severe mental disorder Individuals with bipolar disorder and healthy siblings of people with schizophrenia or bipolar disorder were overrepresented in creative professions. People with schizophrenia had no increased rate of overall creative professions compared with controls, but an increased rate in the subgroup of artistic occupations. Neither individuals with unipolar depression nor their siblings differed from controls regarding creative professions. Creativity and mental disorder: family study of 300,000 people with severe mental disorder - PubMed
Artistic creativity and risk for schizophrenia, bipolar disorder and unipolar depression: a Swedish population-based case-control study and sib-pair analysis Compared with the general population, individuals with an artistic education had increased odds of developing schizophrenia (odds ratio = 1.90, 95% CI = [1.69; 2.12]) bipolar disorder (odds ratio = 1.62 [1.50; 1.75]) and unipolar depression (odds ratio = 1.39 [1.34; 1.44]. The results remained after adjustment for IQ and other potential confounders.
Brian certainly had some mental issues, and his drug and alcohol use did not help. He had left home early, travelled and was already a parent and another on the way as the Stones were formed, and he had issues getting along in groups of people. both Mick and Keith said he was a plotter, that it was him and Keith and him and Mick but never all three. As his alcohol and drug use increased, he struggled ever more with issues we might think should have been easy to deal with daily. As the band moved away from his direct sphere of influence, he felt he lost his group, then he lost Anita to Keith, and it just snowballed. He was not as incapacitated on drugs as has been the story forever; he had issues but a whole lot of his problems were how he felt mentally. He suffered and that is sad, and I don't think the others had any idea that a lot of it was mental. I certainly think Greeny had them before his Munich incident. He grew up in East End London, as a young Jewish boy, and apparently he was picked on as a young man. He was quiet and unassuming, and playing guitar was his solace. I think he never felt he was good enough as a child, and I do think it carried over to his music. He certainly was one of the greatest of his generation; as good as anyone who ever played. He still had that doubt and was using acid...I think the acid worked on him over time mentally. After Munich he did not collapse; his playing afterward was incredibly good; it was even better. I think the mental issues eventually came to the fore and he had to get away. Brian Wilson and Syd Barrett I think also had similar experiences. Peters protegee, Danny Kirwan also had issues. I think Danny was very young and was elated when Mick asked him to join the Mac; his dream, he was at the foot of his idol in Peter. Him and Peter were great together, but Danny felt inferior to Peters ability; most people were and are inferior to PGs playing. fanny got to a point where he argued with Peter, who wanted him to develop his own songs and style instead of hero worship. Peter gave him space as Danny wrote half the songs on The Play On. Danny was hurt when Greeny left, but they carried on. His drug use was an issue, but alcohol seemed to be an even bigger issue. As time went on, it was more pressure on Danny to be a leader, be Greeny....and there was no way. His anger got worse, his substance abuse got worse and he went over the edge. He was fired, and made some more music, some of it good, but as he withdrew more and more, his mental health got worse. Peter made a comeback in the the late 70s and enjoyed a rebirth and owned his drug use and mental illness. He never was the same player he had been, but he left a great legacy for us to love; I think he was content when he died. Danny never made it back, and his story was sad; perhaps his death gave him some peace. I feel for these people, as I love3 what they gave me as musical gifts I love today!!!!! We did not know that much about mental illness then, and though it has come a long way, there is a long way to go. I wish we put more emphasis on it, as I know each of us see it in life each day. My wife has a dear friend whose husband is absolutely lost and we expect bad news any day. He is 57, and grew up in a home with a father who drank but did teach him building skills; good ones. He had 2 older brothers who got out asap and became a doctor and dentist; they have little contact now. He was the third oldest; the other 2 were gone so he caught the crap at home, he got the beatings. His younger brother was mommys baby...and still is....he has drug issues but Mom supports him with $ and love; he has not worked in years and has it made. Our friend had reading issues and school issues in general and was shamed by the "cool kids" for being dumb. He developed a Hells Angel persona as he grew older; it was easy to see through but it got him through. He hung out with rough crowds, did drugs and drank, and got involved in stealing equipment and motorcycle/car parts. Do not know how he never got caught for years, but has done a bit of time as this stuff does catch up to you. He had a good roofing business, but things kept falling apart with his family. 5 daughters had drinking and people issues. One daughter had a child die due to her drug issues, then was murdered by the childs father. Our friend slipped into not working, then started hanging out with younger brothers wife as both are on drugs, and now he has a wife and mistress...everyone knows it even his wife, but he is so far gone now its as if it does not matter. I see him every once in a while; the blank look in the eyes tell me it is near the end. Last time I saw him he walked right by; he never even know it was me. It makes me sad to see this; yes he has not helped himself with his actions, and he needs to be accountable for his wrongs, but I can see where going through this stuff starting very early leads to a downward spiral over time without an outlet ie help with mental issues. He tried alcohol drugs and tough guy persona as medication but it never works. My wife at times gets a little down here and there, but I am always an ear and sounding board for her. She has had some help, and takes a mild medication that she sticks to by the book. We have been together 32 years, and I am sure she knows I am with her in all she does. I am a good husband to her and she knows it, but I am a better friend and confidante that listens and lets her vent when needed. She has been a bit rude at times and sometimes takes out frustration on me, but I understand and can roll with it. I encourage anyone out there who is struggling to get help in some form. There is much more help out there now, there is nothing wrong with seeking it, and more important you are not alone, many suffer daily, and you are not a anomaly, you are a person with a need that can be helped.
It's kinda mindblowing in itself how much of the original Fleetwood Mac were decimated by these drugs. They put a special show on here recently and Spencer played with elements of the band (actually, thinking back it was a Green tribute), man, his playing was heavenly! But I read he had some real dark, strange missing years. Sandy Denny, did the drink and drugs contribute to the accident? Could they intervene on Ian Curtis? I guess we'll never really know now.
Ian had epilepsy. I think his depression was partly because he felt it inescapable and maybe that one day it would take him anyway.
It's the same with all artists and writers. Art and mental illness go hand and hand, and you'll find that the majority of great ones have it and suffer from it to lesser or greater degrees. It's just the way it is.
The cycle can be 2-4 days (with a 2-4 hr dose half life), it didn't stop people from spiking, and if you were in a heavy use environment, as Syd was, it could get relentless. Again purity and potency are factors also, if dimethoxymethyl was present, it was kicking in regardless of the LSD. Once speed was present it meant all kinds of other chemicals it was cut with could be present from baking soda to industrial cleaning solvents. Damaging.
