My 2nd poor experience with a Discogs Seller (out of about 150). Badmotorfinger 320

So I've wanted this record for a while: Soundgarden - Badmotorfinger , but the problem is, is that most of them are sealed/new and they are really this pressing: Soundgarden - Badmotorfinger as they are both 395 374-1 . The first one is a 320 and then second one isn't. I tried to order a sealed 320 last year and came as the 2nd one (which I'm not too impressed with).

Anyway, most of these seaeled (but almost certainly the incorrect pressing) are going for about 20-25 Euros (I'm in the US).

I found one listed as M and "Opened but unplayed.Still in shrink wrap. „320“ in the deadwax incl." 60 euros + 28 Euros to FL, 94.60 which is roughly $100 or close to it - sent from Germany. Seller is 99.7 positive with 714 reviews and 5,500 records for sale. So I paid well over what the other ones are going for to make sure I received a 320.

Received yesterday - Track 1 on both sides the needle jumps for at least the first 30-45 seconds (I didn't have it in me to go further than that) on every revolution. I think - and it is barely perceptible - that there is a very small, but sharp warp. I can't really even see it from the side when spinning.

I let the seller know.

His reply was, "I didn't put the record on at all, I just checked to see if the 320 was in the run-out groove.
I looked at both sides before packing and could not see any damage at all."

My next reply was, "Ok - yes, it isn’t visible. so what happens now? i let smaller issues go all the time but the first track on each side are not playable . Thanks.:

Him, "I am not a professional record seller. You can also not return to the record label. What can I say ? I am not liable for it."

Me, "You’re kidding right? You have 5,500 records for sale right now. Including shipping I have a record that cost me almost $100 and is very damaged (even if from the factory). I’ve never sold a record in my life but this would be unsellable. I’ll contact Discogs later today and see what they say. I’ve purchased about 150 records for Discogs over the past two years and only 3-4 had issues and the seller took care of those appropriately."

After reading Discogs terms it looks like I would have to ask Paypal with assistence. I haven't decided if I will. They will want pictures and the pictures will look perfect - the problem isn't visable.

Thoughts? I guess I'll leave my first bad review and then try Paypal. What I've played of the rest of the record it does sound great - just Track 1 of each side. Side 1, track 1 is Rusty Cage though (!!!).

Or....after I typed this whole thing out I just remembered I have a vinyl flat. Maybe I'll just see if that takes the bump out and leave him a bad review and move on. If I try PP then they will want me to send the record back and if I do that it has to be the same as when I sent it. So will probably be PP OR vinyl flat.

I think his attitude maked the whole thing worse and pissed me off more than the defective record itself. However, 2 bad transactions out of 150 isn't so bad so....

 

The fact that it seems that "a very small, but sharp warp. I can't really even see it from the side when spinning" is causing "needle jumps for at least the first 30-45 seconds" is really bizarre, have you tried playing it on a different turntable? I think you'll need to contact PayPal as Discogs doesn't offer any buyer protection.

 

I agree it sounds odd but something is going on that has the needle skipping at the beginning of the record on both sides. I can see it "jumping" but ....maybe there is a tiny bump but not much. I'll take another look tonight or tomorrow night. TT is fine - no other issues w/ many other records.

I did send the seller another message on Discogs because he has the exact same record for sale - he must have picked up a few of them. I asked him to sound test it and if I could mail mine back ($30 shipping for me probably to Europe) and once he recieves if he can send me the other one. I don't have high hopes but ...we'll see.

If it is a negative reply then it will come down to Paypal for buyer protection or trying the vinyl flat.

 

You need to play this LP on another TT.

Do you understand this advice?

 

If it's not playable (and your description fits that), you have a valid reason to claim via Paypal. It's not up to you to know why it skips. Your turntable, arm and cartridge are top notch and should be able to track almost anything.

 

I understand the request but I don't understand why. The TT is 100% fine.

I'll wait to see what the seller says tomorrow and give him a chance to trade records which will only cost each of us shipping and I'll finally get the record I want (undamaged).

 

I would think that someone selling an unsealed LP for $100 should be willing to play test it at the beginning of each side for thirty seconds to check for surface noise or an edge warp. Were photos of the LPs included in the listing?

I don’t feel like risking this kind of problem buying an expensive used LP from outside the US, but that’s me.

 

It's Discogs so no photos can be uploaded. You can ask and get them emailed or the seller can provide a link to them in the comments section of his listing, but most sellers don't do that and often, don't send any anyway.

However, in this case, even if they were sent, it wouldn't have made a difference since the OP said the problem is not visible.

 

If it is tracking as poorly as you describe, there must be a way to ascertain some sort of vinyl damage: A divot in the vinyl is most likely if it's skipping on track one on both sides.

Since the LP was opened (not sealed), I agree that even if a seller is visually grading, M- or VG+ suggests a certain level of playability. Get PayPal involved if you can't find a resolution with the seller.

The suggestion by others to try another turntable is a very reasonable one for what we call in programming a "sanity check".

 

The reason to try on another turntable is that is a variable that needs to be ruled out since what is causing this issue is basically invisible. You would be shocked how often people's quality turntables/arms/carts can have some subtle issue that can cause problems like this.

 

If the seller's description was, " Opened but unplayed", I think that's kind of a red flag, and I would have not purchased an album with that description. Whether he's telling the truth or not, he has effectively shielded himself from a return or refund. If there's a really weird problem with it which is not visible, he cannot have known of it if it is "unplayed."

Now, having said that, I would ask if you can adjust the anti-skate on your turntable. I have a copy of Yes's first album that does not look warped at all but the needle skidded across the first time I played it. I adjusted the anti-skate minutely and it solved the problem.

 

Open but unplayed is b.s., just like claiming an unsealed LP is mint. Once the shrink wrap is gone, there is no guarantee that the LP hasn't been played, so NM/NM- is the top grade that should be used.

 

Hello All, slammed at work this morning so will have to reply later but I just made this video. Record looks clean - warp is more visible than I thought. I don't have any other TTs but I'm 100% sure that isn't the problem:

 

just bought another one much cheaper on Discogs w/ a needle drop for track 1. Will be contacting PP when I have some time in the next few days for the first one (badmotohop).

 

You can see the defect in that video pretty clearly. I don't think the vinyl flat will fix that so a return is definitely your better option here.

 

I'm surprised that's causing "needle jumps for at least the first 30-45 seconds" but yeah, that is a nasty little warp, definitely return.

 

Thanks all. I had a few minutes and requested a refund through Paypal. We'll see what happens....thanks again for all the feedback. Just in other aspects of life, it helps to write it out sometimes and this thread compelled me to post the video which showed me the warp better - and I added the link to the PP request.

 

Yeah, that video makes it clear you have a small warp, but a tough one to track.

A Vinyl Flat *might* help, but, honestly, for a $100 record that was priced full retail, I don't want to mess with vinyl flat. PayPal return if the seller won't play ball.

Now, to play devil's advocate, I can see how the seller would have missed that. Without play grading that kind of warp can be VERY difficult to catch. So I'd give him some slack for missing it in the grading. But given that it's a reality, he needs to be (at least grudgingly) receptive to a return. It sucks but that's life.

 

LP described as Mint. It’s not. Case closed.

 

Right on. We are buying records we have not heard and have not seen from people whom we have not met applying their subjective interpretation of grading standards with a clear financial conflict of interest.

The concept that a buyer should not be able to return an overgraded record in such a circumstance is simply unreasonable.

On occasion I offer records from my personal collection on Ebay. My listings specifically state that a record can be returned for any reason. Don't like the mastering? Return it. Disagree with the grade? Return it. Wife asked for a divorce the day you received it and you need a refund? Return it. I sold my whole collection on Ebay a decade ago and had 2 returns out of hundreds, and one of those was a minty MFSL Tull Thick As A Brick and the buyer simply didn't like the mastering. Because the record was accurately graded, I listed it again and ended up getting a higher price and had a very happy buyer. Did the right thing and it only took a few minutes.

On the marketplace discussions I referenced a recent Discogs return. Ordered a mint and sealed Beatles BC13 numbered 1978 set. Received a blatant reseal. Box was unnumbered even though the specific box number was in the listing. The box was beat up. Records in box were not sealed (the US 1978 set was shipped with individually sealed LPs with Union Jack stickers except for Rarities which was Capitol and unsealed). Many LPs had spindle marked labels. There were 2 Peppers, one of which was the orange Capitol U.S. label which obviously was not part of the set. Several matrices were from mid-80-s masterings so it was clearly a later reissue of the box, not the 1978 first issue per the listing. Previous owner's name (yes name, not just initials) was on some labels. Seams were split. This set was a VG to VG+ set, so it was not a used but perfect looking set someone tried to pass off as new.

A refund was requested and I described the contents to the seller. Seller apologized and issued a refund and agreed to pay return shipping. He did not provide the shipping label in the time frame he promised. So, to expedite, I paid for return shipping myself. He again apologized and said he would reimburse shipping. After 2 emails providing return shipping cost ($20 including insurance) and receiving no response, I left neutral feedback with a description of what was listed and what was received.

Here is the funny part: after he received the return, he sent me an email asking me to again explain what was wrong with the set. All I could do was chuckle to myself. I am not going to get angry over $20, and I didn't leave negative feedback because I otherwise got a full refund and the neutral feedback is 250 characters describing the exact situation. Anyone who reads his neutral feedback is going to understand the seller's practices.

 

Yeah, easy returns is a good business practice. But do you eat both the return shipping cost AND the 2.9% that PayPal won't return to you if you do a refund--especially on a "I changed my mind" return?

 

I always ask for pictures, especially for any higher priced item. In this case you would have seen the box was not mint and likely avoided the transaction.

 

It's very simple- you're always covered by Paypal for any defects or anything received that is 'not as described' (you could claim incorrect grading). A warp is an obvious defect.
You should always try to work out a satisfactory solution with the seller first (Paypal even says this), but if it doesn't work out just file a dispute.
You will always win as long as you provide some proof and your claim is at least reasonable.

Best advice is always ask necessary questions to satisfy yourself before buying, and ask for pictures to see things for yourself.

I actually got the '320' pressing a few years ago for <$20, as I recall any cover with 'Made in the EU' indicated the '320' copy- I guess that changed since the 2021 Euro repress.

 

Good question. "Yes" is the short answer.

However, this is a hobby for me, not a business. So, when I sold my 300 record collection for an average price of roughly $30 10 years ago, the 2 returns I experienced (roughly 1 return per 150 records sold) cost $4 media mail and perhaps a PayPal fee. Let's assume this was $20 or $30 total I lost with my no questions asked return policy on several thousand dollars in net receipts. That is just a rounding error and nothing to lose sleep over.

I sold a UK first press "The Wall" on eBay recently that was a true NM- visually and play grade. The buyer returned it because his stylus stuck on side 4. I played the record again upon receiving the return and I heard a single tick exactly where he said it was sticking for him. While it didn't stick on either of my turntables, the buyer was probably truthful that his cart was hanging up. The cart I had as a kid jumped out of the groove on "Captain Fantastic" every time the guitar would rip going into "For cheap easy meals...." There was nothing wrong with the record, but I remember how bummed I was because I didn't understand what was going on. I was 10. Everyone has different gear. Even if his stylus wasn't sticking, does it matter? The record is still the same great record. If I decide to relist it, I can set the price a few bucks higher if I'm really worried about recovering any fees I lost by taking good care of a fellow vinyl lover.

Please note I completely respect that for-profit sellers, who may deal occasionally with unscrupulous buyers, may have to draw some lines. No disrespect intended to them. For me, eating a few bucks on a rare return is just now that big of a deal.

 

I often ask sellers to confirm no warps on a turntable, and to check both sides because any dish warp will appear fine on one side.