Need a primer on re-tipping options ( round, nude, line, micro , Ogura , Shibata, Fritz Gyger )

My Grado Reference Sonata is in need of a re-tip. The specialist who I have used before has given me several options below. He thinks all of these below will be a step above the stock tip from Grado. But I don't understand the pros/cons of each?

Round shank 5/75 hyperelliptical
Nude .1mm x .1mm square nude Ogura 5/60 line contact
Nude .1 mm x .1 mm square nude Ogura 2.5/75 line contact
Nude 0.1 mm x 0.1 mm square shank 3/80 Namiki Micro Ridge
Nude .12 x .12 square nude 3/80 Fritz Gyger FG2
Nude .1 x .1 mm square Namiki 6/40 Shibata III
Nude .12 x .12 mm square nude 3/100 Fritz Gyger S

 

All are considered Line Contact styli. Meaning mostly that the plunge deeper into the groove and contact the groove with more surface area than elliptical. There are slight differences between the designs. If you look at the numbers next to the name, they describe the shape of the tip. The smaller number indicates a smaller radius, so more contact with the groove. It also means that the it will be more particular to azimuth and alignment.

I'm guessing the top one isn't nude, nude meaning it's adhered to the cantilever through a hole rather than adhered to a shank on cantilever. Nude are lighter. Round shanks aren't necessarily grain oriented so they may wear faster than a square shank.

 

Well, as vinyloftubes pointed out, all those variants from the retipper offer greater contact area and extract more sound.
Now, bear in mind that not only smaller radius tip usually needs more adjustments, but also the larger radius as well. As far as I understood, your Marantz is a pretty decent turntable, but I personally wouldn't reach out for FGS in favor of less radical radius, especially the larger one.
If you don't have a large collection of lesser grade LPs then you can try anything from your list besides the first hyperelliptical.
Shibata is known to have a bit of an emphasis on high-mid, which seems to be very suitable for jazz and classical music (at least from my experience of watching reviews and checking out audio samples), but that shape is a tad behind Fritz Gyger and MicroRidge in terms of novelty and hours of playback. Can't say anything about Ogura.

 

Will I need a special tool to do this azimuth alignment? And are all of these options the cream of the crop in re-tips? In other words , are these the same tips found on the most expensive cartridges? If not, what else is there above this?

 

Talk to an honest re-tipper.

 

What kind of tip did the cart originally come with? Cantilever material? Just keep in mind deviating too much from the factory spec may make the cart may make the cart sound "different", which could be good or bad depending on your point of view.

RE: azimuth, it depends how you want to adjust it. People often suggest a certain method but it's not the only method. At a bare minimum you will need a small mirror to set the cart down on.

If you're having a retip job done, the stylus should be mounted perfectly and not require any real azimuth adjustment. Anything that requires much more than barely a degree in either direction should be considered defective, or something is wrong with your adjustment tools. Many test records will give bad results if you are not careful...

 

I'd say so. If you want the best of them all regardless of possible aligning difficulties - I would've went for Fritz Gyger S of course or Ogura 2.5-75.
As for your question on special tools - a protractor and an azimuth ruler tool like this would be helpful https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71fuTlWbf0L._AC_SX425_.jpg

 

I am not sure I follow what you are saying here. By radical radius do you mean the 0.1mm number or the 3/80 number?

 

The latter. I don't know if it's proper to refer to the μm numbers instead of millimeters but I got used to μm numbers. Those are standing for small radius (the tip) and large radius (as I understood the start of the tip that contacts the highest point of the groove).

 

So are you saying I do not really need to do any azimuth adjustment? Just protractor at two points and make sure tonearm is parallel to the record surface? That's pretty much all I do plus tracking and anti-skating force.

 

Yeah, if the retipping specialist will make it right then we can assume that you won't need any azimuth adjustments of course.

 

I would check the azimuth with a mirror like I said. Set the cartridge down gently on the mirror and you should see a perfect hourglass reflection. If not, your retip job is not right and you need to ship it back.

A good retipper should make sure the azimuth is dead on before sending the cartridge to the customer. One guy I know of sends diamond photos and crosstalk tests to customers so they know the job was done correctly.

 

I don't think that your tonearm has azimuth adjustment. My tonearm doesn't either and the retipped Benz I just received from Andy Kim of Needle Clinic is right on the money. Better than a Benz brand new out of the box I had years ago which was ever so slightly off azimuth. As for the different profiles probably no one is experienced enough with all of these to give you a truly educated answer. Your retipper should make a recommendation and as this is a $600 cartridge I wouldn't go nuts here. Any of these but the elliptical would represent an upgrade in terms of stylus over the original.

 

You should get more info about what you are being quoted, is that just a stylus replacement, or cantilever too? Generally, a stylus replacement is more expensive, and not provided by many retippers. The standard practice is to chop off the cantilever and glue a new one on using a coupling, with stylus already mounted. If your cantilever is broken, than that's OK, but if intact, it may be better to get only the stylus replaced. A stylus replacement alone can get expensive, though, since it requires special skills and takes more time.

Does your Grado have the stepped cantilever? I think they are made from 3 or 4 telescopic aluminum tube sections, they call it OTL. I think Grado also offers a rebuild or retip service, not sure how much they charge.

Anyway, good luck, I really like the Namiki MicroRidge, I've been using it for many years on Benz Micro LOMC carts with boron cantilever, and now also on Audio Technica.

 

Re-Tip could just be removing the old stylus & sticking a new one on the old cantilever & not the same complete factory rebuild essentially a new cartridge
better the stylus profile , more contact with the groove wall , longer lifespan , better sound



.

 

I ended up doing the retip with the 5/125 Fritz Gyger S . Compared to my previous Grado Prestige Gold, this sounds noticeably brighter. Here's the comments from my re-tipper about that:

"The Prestige Gold 1 is a actually a very dark-sounding cartridge to begin with. The woodies aren’t. The latest Prestige are not dark and neither were the old ones. My theory is that Grado darkened the sound of the Prestige series in order to try to get more people to buy the woodies. But it backfired as people complained that the Prestige were so dark. The latest Prestige 3 series is open and airy again like the Ms, Gs, Xs and Zs of old.

So even with the same elliptical tip you got on your Gold, I think the woody would still be brighter."

 

Well, glad it worked out for you The brighter part is definitely what I assumed you'd get with Gyger S profile. How do you find the sound overall? Like wider soundstage, surface noise, details?

 

This is one of the best primer threads on stylus shapes and history,a s well as some good discussion.

Advanced Stylus Shapes: Pics, discussion, patents.- Vinyl Engine

 

Not really sure. Initially I thought the brightness was due to the Fritz Gyger S profile. But the comments from my re-tipper imply the Grado woodies are inherently bright sounding.

I think I can hear a little more detail in the records than before the re-tip. But it is probably the difference between 97% and 99% In other words, quite small..

At least now I don't have to always worry if I am hearing the most out of the records. I believe what I have is probably very close to the best that my records are ever going to sound..

 

Oh, I see. I'm not very experienced with anything besides Ortofon 2M in terms of sound, because that's the cart I have, but so far I personally heard how different 2M and OM styli change the sound signature. And of course I heard samples of A-T95 with 4 styli.

Yeah, that's for sure, you definitely don't have to worry now. If you have interchangeable headshells it opens you a chance to try something else in your setup, but with that Gyger S it will be quite a hard task for other carts to get you the same precise sound, tracking and low IGD.

 

I always speculated that Grado was trying to make the Prestige series sound warm. They're the entry level series and so many people get into vinyl because it sounds "warm." So they start out with one of the "warm" sounding Prestige carts and get all warm and wet in the pants.

 

I've had the chance to evaluate the Gyger S profile for a few weeks . I am noticing a little sibliance on loud passages with high frequency content. My re-tipper said I should I send it back to him for a look. Before doing so I am wondering if this maybe a tradeoff with this Gyger profile? It extracts more high frequency content at the expense of occasional sibliance/distortion?

 

As far as I understand advanced profiles, they provide less sibilance on hard passages with good setup, so in that case it is a question. If your cartridge is known to have an emphasis on high frequency region, then it might be the cart itself or your system that might accentuate some sounds that have a tendency to be sibilant.

 

Talk to Grado, they could likely retip this for you reasonably.

 

I had a Gyger S on a Goldring cart and it could never track and trace quite as well as the AT ML, which is really just a Namiki Microridge. I will admit my standards are very high on this point, and most people on here, particularly folks that listen to a lot of tame records, would not notice a problem.

What records are we talking about and what were you playing them with before? It may just be the retip is revealing stuff on the record and baked into the recording. Many singers have natural vocal sibilance when they sing or speak. I even notice this with actors on TV. Best thing to do is compare your record with a good quality digital or CD version. If you hear it on there as well as the record, it's not the record or the cartridge. If it is exaggerated on the record, the cartridge may not be quite up to scratch as far as tracing goes. Used records can also have wear on the inner grooves, as they are the first to go with a worn stylus or crap cart.