I'll learn how to check Discogs Neil, thanks. It is not mono. An inaccurate pressing, groove damage, record wear, low volume if any are constant, will not be helped with an acid-soak. Are there any other sound deficiencies of other frequencies that (if non-uniform throughout) may indicate an acid-soak might help besides screechy mid-highs ? I'm confident the stylus tracking and anti-skate are set correctly. Best 2 U
Jenn, There are no absolutes here. I am not aware of any simple visual inspection that can tell you there is groove damage. As far as pressing, unless it's a limited numbered pressing, you do not know whether you got an early run or a late run. If you want a guaranteed copy of an old pressing, there is this option, but it is not cheap - Better Records: Hot Stamper LPs — 100% Guaranteed Great Sound. (better-records.com). As I have stated the Acid-Soak is a last-ditch effort to 'clean' the record. Is it groove damage, is it a bad pressing, or is it detritus? I do not make a final determination until after the Acid-Soak. Once I have done the Acid-Soak, I am done with any further attempts to clean a record. I do not do it very often. It's a combined 45-min procedure; and the success rate is better with used than new records. Otherwise, another good source for record reviews is this the SH site which has a whole forum on nothing more than music reviews. Good Luck, Neil
Drying Rack... I wanted to share a find for those searching (like me) for a stable, non-sharp drying rack after a wet clean that will 'not' contact any playable vinyl areas. Requirements; *No sharp edges *Holds record firmly to withstand compressed air blasts *Does not contact any playable vinyl areas And the winner is... 1st Place Madesmart Expandable Bakeware Stand Second place was... Maple Rack (Tall) Third place was... (don't laugh, it works great !) 6 or 4 adjustable boot rack 6-Pair Natural Boot Rack There were others that 'might' have been suitable but either had no dimensions or contact for the company or a huge wait time, or both. Hope this is useful for someone... Jenn
The one item I see as a 'challenge' is safely getting the record in/out of these two racks. The high lift and angle to remove could be awkward if at counter height. Neil
Sliding up/down is not necessary, there are many inches in between each divider, the nice thing is a record can be safely pivoted/slid out/in without lifting upward and there is enough room for using the hands as a buffer from any accidental contact with the wood. The soft wood also is easily cut to custom size with a hand saw. The wood posts can also be Dipped, Sprayed, or Brushed with 'Plasti Dip' to create a rubberized protective coating. I went with the plastic, it's ready to go and my DIY list is full for now
Vinyl Record Drying Rack DIY... Hi all again. In the search for a Vinyl Record drying rack with; * Stability to withstand air blasts * No sharp edges * Touching the label only Drying Rack Here It's really affordable and I've retired the previous drying racks, this is the new Queen. I couldn't find an opaque colored 3/8 inch Inner diameter tubing for a more attractive customization, if anyone knows a substitute, please let me know, I'd love to make it look less like a scary medical device. For those who want to make one; 1. Vinyl Record Storage Holder Stand Rack Eco Friendly Wooden CD Display Stand 2. EZ-FLO 3/8-in ID x 20-ft PVC Clear Vinyl Tubing Total cost: ~ 20.00 Customizing is easy. I cut 15 inch sections of tubing and slid them over each dowel. Dowels are not glued so if you wanted to change the sizes you could cut them to suit your needs. I'll probably glue them into place when I'm satisfied with the distances, they seem to be correct at the moment. No more worries for sharp edges, it's small and the records easily slide up/down with enough room to avoid touching the playable areas. The contact area is the label 'only'. I sometimes use compressed air to blow off the dust after dry and before sleeving, I've had no problems with the record moving during the dust off. Best regards, Jennifer
Hi Neil, Regarding Acid-Soak Thanks again for detailing the acid-soak process, I've just revived an old 80s album after an initial 3 step cleaning. I notice more mid-highs and overall clarity. I am wondering however, if it is possible for 'Sibilance' to occur if the Record Doctor brust is used with too much scrubbing during the acid-soak process ? I am noticing 'Sibilance' after dry. Thank you.
First - the acid-soak has no scrubbing, other than after the soak, you do a standard acid-wash as you would normally. And, as I wrote in the book, the Record Dr brush does not get deep into the groove, the bristles are too wide. The Record Doctor™ Clean Sweep Brush with clusters of 0.05 milli-meter (0.002”) wide Nylon bristles (260,000 bristles total) do not deeply penetrate the record groove. Additionally, Nylon absorbs water and softens during use (but returns to original properties once dry). Furthermore, the bristle width is near equal to the top width of the record groove and when combined with the low surface tension of both the cleaning solutions forms a hydraulic wedge to force the cleaner deep into the groove. The back-and-forth brushing action then develops the fluid agitation (a combination of shear force & cavitation) necessary to deeply scrub/clean/flush the groove. But, since the Record Doctor™ Clean Sweep Brush does not deeply penetrate the groove, there is very little risk of record harm. Happy Holidays, Neil
Happy Holidays to you too ! Neil, please allow an expansion of my original question. I couldn't find reference in your sovent charts for the potential to cause swelling from a soak with the ingredients 'Citric or Glycolic acid'. I referenced the manual from the Alconox website for 'Citranox' used in the acid-soak (Citranox-SDS-english.pdf - Safety Data Sheet - Alconox Inc.), the "Hazardous Components" are listed as "Citric Acid" and "Glycolic Acid", I was unable to find references in your chart tables (Table IX Hansen Solubility Parameter Record & Solvents Analysis) on potential effects for risk of 'swelling'. My curiosity was the risk/effect of any brushing immediately after the acid-soak. referencing your post November 14, 2021; "3. Rinse with tap water - no need to brush. Reapply Citranox and then brush clean the side that was soaked. This removes any swollen but not dissolved debris. 4. Rinse/brush away the Citranox with tap water." There is concern for Alcohol solvents... "X.5.g Soaking a record with high concentrations of alcohol solvents at room temperature for extended periods could be harmful. We do not how reversible is any swell, and we do not know the exact record composition. If reversible such as Nylon, and adequate time between cleaning and play, then little harm will occur. If, not, and the record properties are altered – likely softened or possibly hardened, in either case accelerated record wear would be expected and the high frequency side wall ridges/peaks that are the thinnest portion of the record should be the most susceptible. If they soften, the stylus will permanently bend/smear the peak and high frequency data (signal amplitude/strength) will be attenuated/lost." [Revised] Is this correct? : The Citranox soak, re-spray, brushing (per version 2) does not induce swelling (as in X.5.g above), and needs no adjustments to brushing or a wait period after the soak to brush ? Many thanks. Jennifer
Jenn, Citric acid and Glycolic acids are not classified as solvents and therefore there are no Hansen Solubility parameters. However, distilled white vinegar that is acetic acid (ethanolic acid) is classified as a solvent and is listed. So, Citric acid and Glycolic acids will not attack the record the way concentrated acetic acid (or alcohols) can. So, if you review PVC material compatibility tables you will see where citric acid is compatible, but acetic acid depending on concentration and temperature may not. Neil
Neil, May I ask an opinion please on using air from this blower after a 3 step clean ? a) Drying (vertical or horizontal) quicker. b) Blowing off dust after dry, before play, in hand or on the platter? (keeping away from belt and cartridge). I am so happy I don't have to spend money on compressed air any more. KOONIE Cordless Air Duster for Computer Keyboard Cleaning, 41000 RPM
Jenn, I do not use compressed air for drying or before or after play, so you will just have to experiment and see what works best. There are a number of these air dusters available -8 Best Electric Computer Dusters (2021) | Heavy.com. They do not have HEPA filters on the inlet (they can't, too much pressure drop) so whatever is in the air can be blown (with great velocity) onto the record surface. So you may remove the big-stuff, only to replace with the little stuff and any other volatiles in the air. There is this model that appears to have a decent filter - Amazon.com: Cordless Air Duster & Vacuum 2-in-1, Electric Compressed Air Blower for Computer Keyboard Cleaning Replaces Canned Air Spray, Portable Handheld Electronics Car Computer Duster, Powerful 60000RPM Motor : Electronics, you would have to do more research. Many of these cordless air dusters are stock designs with different 'vendor' names but with no web-site that has product literature. Neil
Neil, Are these spray bottles capable of reaching into the grooves while spraying Distilled water ? Also, when I first started with your proceedures I missed a step on some records (• Rinse with Flowing Tap-Water & Nylon Record Brush). I did 'not' rinse while using the brush to remove the Liquinox, Citrinox, or Tergitol, only flowing tap-water. I am concerned there might be in inadequate rinse off, so is there a remedy to re-treat those records without having to repeat the entire 3 step process ? Maybe the 3rd step only, then distilled spray... guessing here. Wondering if remainder Tergitol in the grooves can be re-rinsed off again, the correct way this time. Thank you.
You are fine. You were using warm water and I bet you were using a ton of it. Breathe, your records will be OK. Enjoy them and listen to them, I’m sure they sound great.
Yes Recall the book - V.Step.9 Final DIW Rinse: Using the DIW (distilled/demineralized water) spray bottle, liberally spray the record surface from top to bottom (both sides) to remove the tap water. The surface should readily bead-up evidence that all cleaner has been removed. This will leave only DIW that when dry will leave a clean, spot free surface. Gently shake the record to remove bulk drops. If you are at all concerned, just perform the final-clean (Tergitol 15-S-9) and follow-on rinse steps. Using the brush during the tap-water rinse steps assists the rinse process by increasing the rinse efficiency and using less rinse water. I do not know how long it takes you to clean a record, but from the time I put the record label protector on the record to the time I put the record in the rack for final drying is about 8-min for a new record and about 10-min for a used record; and I do the complete process. As detailed and as many steps the process has, its faster than most for the equivalent results - just not as convenient as others that use machines. FYI - the Tergitol will 'dry' just as you see it - as a viscous liquid. People have used with success Tergitol 15-S-9 at about 0.008% w/o rinsing (as addressed book XIV.7 that specifically discusses the Degritter and alternate chemistries). HOWEVER, the Liquinox and Citranox will dry to a grease-like soap - you definitely want to fully rinse these cleaners. Take care, Neil
Once I'm done with the PVA sponge, I squeeze most of the water out and store in a zip lock bag. I've started to notice an oder with the sponge. What is the best way to store this type of sponge? Most cases I'm finishing with my US clean and dry function but I do occasionally use the sponge for drying with certain situations. Perhaps I'm using it too infrequent to store as detailed.
similar with me. I just soaked mine through some DWV and distilled water for a few minutes, then wrung out. Instructions say you can store sealed but that sounds weird. I’ve been putting it in a bag but unsealed since soaking and if it dries out, no biggie.
I store the PVA sponge damp (but ring-out before storage) in a plastic holder - 335-0090 - The Super PVA White PVA Sponge Block in plastic storage case (no label but includes instructions): 5" x 3.25" x 1.38" - $9.95 each The Super PVA Sponge Products (super-cool-products.com). Couple items: The PVA sponge only sees DIW and is only handled with gloved hands. When cleaning a batch of records, in-between use I place the PVA sponge on a clean lint-free microfiber cloth. Once in a while I will full wet/saturate the sponge with the DIW spray bottle and then ring-out. Do not be afraid to actually ring-out the sponge, it's pretty tough. But I would say a sponge is only good for about 6-12 months use; after which I then use it for normal household use. FYI - this is the technical site for the PVA sponge - PVA Sponge, Shammies, Mops, and Wipes. Neil
Thanks for the help fellas. When it's needed, the sponge is great. I wouldn't have thought to ever try it. I don't wear gloves when cleaning records but I should get into the habit. Is that my first new year's resolution? Maybe so.
I've been working through the techniques outlined in the book, in hopes of applying as much as I can on new-to-me real crusty albums. This is stuff with lots of tar/nicotine from smoking, maybe Pledge, etc., in the groove. My clean/play method requires too many cycles on some of these. Anyway, one thing I've found that is helpful, is to take a 1-gallon bucket and cut a hole about 1.5-inches in the bottom. I put this upside down in the sink (so bottom with hole is facing up), and I place the album on top (the knobs of my label protector fit through the hole in the bucket). Basically it gives me an elevated platform in the sink on which to rest the album+label protector. I don't have to worry about making messes in the kitchen this way, everything stays in the sink. Feels a little safer, too. The only issue is, the sink has to be empty. Luckily, with the kids grown/gone, the sink stays mostly empty.
Thank you @pacvr for your reply in the other thread. For the benefit of other Australian users, I've been finding cheap and cheerful equivalents to the items suggested in Neil's document. 1. Liquinox is unavailable, and the most benign substitute that I could identify is Ecostore's Ultra Sensitive Dish Liquid. It is fragrance and colourant free, and seems to lack any cosmetic emollients (MSDS). Another benefit is that it's widely available from our ubiquitous Chemist Warehouse chain. 2. Tergitol is unavailable. Some businesses do sell Triton X100 (sometimes labelled Teric X10), but it's often the case that they either have no stock, or their minimum purchase is a 20L drum, or they don't retail to the general public. There are some other laboratory detergents that are commonly retailed, such as Detcon 95, Liquid Pyroneg and Decon Neutracon, but I can't interpret their suitability for record cleaning, and their accessibility is poor (what would I do with 12 litres of Pyroneg?). Another option which seems to be popular amongst Europeans is to use Polysorbate 20 (sometimes labelled Tween 20), and this is readily accessible in Australia. However, I settled on Ilfotol, if only because I'm not sure if Neil has weighed in on the use of Polysorbate 20. 3. A few Australian retailers stock goatshair brushes. Several also sell the 'Stasis Groove Cleaner Brush', which seems to be an OEM variant of the Record Doctor Brush (even down to the advertising). Its newest iteration boasts '10 micron bristles specifically designed to fit inside record grooves': @pacvr, compared to the 50 micron Record Doctor brush, would a 10 micron brush still be acceptable, or would it be better to opt for a goatshair brush to avoid contact with the grooves? 4. Only two retailers sell label protectors suitable for rinsing. They both seem to be variants of the same OEM product. I have read from Japanese reviewers that they are susceptible to cracking. Nagaoka (the Japanese retailer) noted that this is likely due to the use of alcohol (whether ethyl alcohol or isopropanol) and its effects on the acrylic of the label protector. The nitrile o-rings seem to be of variable quality, and some have reported a stubborn residue left on the record. I would recommend washing the o-ring first. For replacement o-rings I would suggest this seller on eBay as they seem to have a large and well-organised stock. Groovmaster is another alternative, although it's somewhat pricey when shipped to Australia from the US. AliExpress retails a number of other label protectors, including those with longer handles and silicone o-rings, but shipping is always a slow and uncertain experience (especially in the midst of a pandemic). 5. I have not found a reliable supplier of technical grade (or even modest quality) PVA sponges. I've settled on an acceptable quality microfibre cloth with minimum nap and pile to reduce linting.
Instead of dish detergent - use a clear, fragrance-free liquid laundry detergent. Dish detergents contain ingredients that are intended to make them safer for your hands such as aloe and they include thickeners such as glycerin that have no value for cleaning. Liquid laundry detergents on the other hand contain none of these and are mostly a combination of anionic and nonionic surfactants and enzymes that are all intended for cleaning and easy of rinsing. Do not use powdered laundry detergents This vendor is selling the Stasis Brush with 50 micron bristle from Austrialia Stasis Wet & Dry Vinyl Record Brush (grooveaudio.com). Where are you seeing a 10 micron bristle? If you can get Tween 20, then it is a direct substitute for Tergitol 15-S-9; the properties are very similar. Use the same concentrations as specified in the book. Acrylic is very sensitive to stress cracking by alcohol. The Groovemaster though more expensive, the disks are 3X the thickness of the off-brand knock-offs. Nitrile (Buna-N) O-rings can be attacked by certain phosphates that may be common in powdered detergents. This site may have PVA sponges for sale to AU Sponge Pva Australia | New Featured Sponge Pva at Best Prices - DHgate Australia. Other the USA seller Super Cool Products PVA Sponge Products (super-cool-products.com) ships international - not sure of cost. The Slurpex sponge should be the same as the USA Super Cool SLURPEX SPONGE (floormaster.com.au) just a yellow color. Slurpex - the ultimate PVA CHAMOIS Block now distributing products from Shannon Lush and Jennifer Fleming's Home Palette range Neil
Thanks Neil, I'll have a look around and see what I can find. From what I gather, there are two versions of the Stasis brush: the older version with the white handle and 50 micron bristles, and the newer version with the black handle and 10 micron. Some Australian retailers are still using the older production description with the newer brush, but Stasis' website describes the newer (black handle) brush as having "0.01mm Slim Tip Bristles". I don't think any Australian retailer has any remaining stock of the older 50 micron brushes, so I could order either the 10 micron Stasis brush, or a long-bristle goat hair brush. I also have the Audio Technica AT6012, but I'm not sure if it's suitable for the wet cleaning procedure in your paper. Fantastic. This also ends up being much cheaper than Ilfotol. I was uncertain about the Slurpex, but I'll definitely order one. Thanks!
A correction: it turns out there are three variants: (1) 50 micron with white handle; (2) 50 micron with black handle; and (3) 10 micron with a black handle that has a hole in it.
Sorry, missed one critical item with Polysorbate 20 (Tween 20) and that is the surface tension; it does not reduce the surface tension as much - about 41 dynes/cm - but may be enough to wet the record. Also, the Polysorbate 20 will be quite thick, viscous and may be difficult to work with, but it's cheap and may be good enough. Neil
