New KEF R Series

I'm using an Emotiva amp, only 80W a channel but more importantly the processor (UMC-200) allows for 4th order slopes which blends much better with ported mains and also has parametric EQ. Pretty much any amp/receiver these days has ruler flat response, so unless you're clipping you're not going to notice any difference in sound quality, I know that isn't a popular opinion in the audiophile world but to date I haven't seen any kind of study to show otherwise.

 

The A4s will reward some pretty high level amplification. I auditioned them in the listening room of Acoustic Sounds - driven by separates and a $50K analog setup. They sounded incredible (partly due to the excellent room acoustics, no doubt). Unfortunately, they're not suited to large rooms. Whereas KEF LS50s sound much larger than their size suggests, the A4s sound only a tad bigger than what I expect from 7" cones in compact floorstanders. They even strained at times during my audition and that room is probably only ~14' x 20'. The brittleness you heard may have been them struggling to fill your space, that, and/or they need more break-in. My Spendors continued to improve for nearly a whole year.

As amplification is concerned. I think you'd be amazed what a decent tube amp can bring to the table. The Yammie is very good for budget SS, but pales in comparison to the likes of a decent Chinese tube integrated (LM, Cayin, PrimaLuna etc) or a Rogue CM2.

To keep things on topic, if you're liking the new KEF R series, the B&W 700 series is worth checking out. I recently auditioned the 702S2s against the R11s and slightly preferred the B&Ws - surprising because I normally don't care for B&W.

 

Yeah I’m totally thinking of going back to get that pre-owned HK 990. That thing is pretty beefy, I just worry about that brand for some reason.

The A4’s cone is only like 6”, actually probably less once you subtract the foam surround. They specify a 180 mm driver, but that’s the dimensions of the driver’s frame from top to bottom. It’s clipped on the sides. The cabinet’s width is only 6.5 inches. A tiny bit deceiving if you’re not paying attention. I know speakers’ drivers are routinely specified by the frame size, but in this case it’s not circular.

 

Which specific amp do you have? 80 W is pretty good, but what I’ve been focusing on lately is that wattage alone is not enough. Current and transformer size are also important (as you probably know)

 

I noticed that too, but its cone surface area is still about the same as most manufacturer's quoted 7" drivers. I do find it sounds as big as a typical 7" cone, but think the real impediment is the cabinet size. The dealer claims the A7s sound almost as big as SP100s - hard to believe given their cabinet isn't much larger.

 

I use the UPA 500 in a small room, I'll probably upgrade to one with 120-200w/ch next just to never worry about power needs. High passing the mains with a 4th order high pass also takes off most of the demands of the deep bass as well and as I mentioned before is almost mandatory when blending with the LS50, unless you seal the ports but I prefer to take advantage of the low distortion port output above the port tuning frequency.

 

Something funny happened to me on the way to make a costly decision.

For a long time I've been playing with the idea of replacing my old KEF Q5 with either something from the R series or even a pair of Blade. The Q5 are starting to show their age and I grew used to the LS50 in the study which only accented the lack of imaging and depth of the Q5 in the living room. I had some free time during the weekend, which is always a dangerous thing because idle hands etcetera and decided to see if perhaps It would be also wise to get rid of the coffee table and the huge L shaped couch for something a bit smaller. I took my tape meter, started to get some measurements decided where I could move the new sofa and tried to visualize in my mind how I will sit and if I can also get a recliner. Then just to check if it made any sense I squatted on the floor, switched on the amp and speakers to listen to some music and WOW. Suddenly I didn't want to get rid of the Q5 because the staging and imaging was widely improved. It's not LS50 territory yet but it's not bad at all and it still retained all the qualities of the Q5 which I appreciated a long time ago when I auditioned them vs a set of Q7 and thought that they actually sounded much better than their larger sibling.

The funny thing is that the very same location was tried 10 years ago and I didn't like it at all, which is the reason why the couch was pushed to the back. Since then I changed the amp and added a Rel B2 sub but it never occurred to me to experiment again with sitting positions. I also had very little motivation to experiment because I thought that this would require me to tune the Rel sub again and it took me ages to get it right. Now it looks like I won't have to do it and will be able to extend the usage of my old Q5 into the next decade.

 

This all goes to prove how important the room is. Imagine if room treatments were added to this experiment.

 

What did you prefer about the 702's? I'm currently deciding between the the 702's and the R7's.

 

Seemed to have greater resolution.

 

you can find some more references/reviews here:

 

I really like those r3, thanks to them I could purchase new r300s for 600€, quite a bargain !

 

I think this review convinced me if I were choosing between the R300 and the R3 to purchase the R3. In my opinion slightly better low and upper ends over time really adds up. I also wonder about his ability to really review any speaker if he sits them on top of another set of speakers for a critical listening review and places them in front of a window (glass) that is recessed back into the wall. First off the tweeters are far from an ideal height to really listen critically as they are currently placed and second your stand really needs to be of a high quality and anchored both to the floor and the speaker to the stand to get the best performance out of the speaker, particularly the low end. Maybe if he set them up properly he would have thought them slightly better than he currently does and then would be able to justify the extra dollars over the R300. It seems however that the LS50 has a better Uni-Q driver than either the R3 or R300? I do not know but it seems from how everyone favors the sound of the LS50 even though it is slightly bass shy.

 

This has been my suspicion as well, that the LS50's Uni-Q is of a higher quality. But this seems odd as its design is, what, like 7-8 years old now? You would think the newest R series have a superior implementation, but that does not seem to be the case. Either that or there's just something so unique about the LS50's Uni-Q-and-cabinet synergy that works so well.

As for the bass: being "bass shy" I think is a good way to describe it. Unlike others, I would not come right out and say they are lacking bass. Sometimes I find myself thinking they have enough bass for me, but then I remind myself: while I can hear the bass, I can't really feel it. (and then I ask myself: do I care? Do I need to feel it? Haha. I am not much of a bass-head)

 

Might be the result of the different baffle profiles and materials.

I'm fairly certain the LS50 UniQ cones are an aluminum/magnesium alloy. I don't know about the R series, but some of their lower-shelf UniQs are a cheaper alloy.

 

Just re-auditioned the R11 at two other local dealers. Their sound is highly dependent on the quality of amplification. First stop they were being driven by the entry level McIntosh integrated and they sounded strained and unrefined. Definitely not acceptable.
Second stop they were in a quality dealer's showcase room and the walnut finish looked really nice. Driven by a Rogue Audio RP7 tube preamp and Hegel H20 power amp. Sound was a mixed bag but overall very interesting, they mentioned that they were far from fully broken in.
Bass was somewhat light in the balance but well controlled. I appreciated the lack of cabinet coloration. Midrange was exceptionally transparent, a pleasant surprise and very enjoyable.
Sound stage was unbelievable- wide beyond the substantial side to side spacing, high and deep well behind the speakers. Imaging was incredible.
My only complaint was that the treble was somewhat exaggerated and un-natural and I'll use the metallic word again- there is no getting around it. Cymbals sounded exaggerated with too much energy and air. That said, I still really liked them. They made the music exciting.
The difficult question is if the system sounded that much better than my current Harbeth C7ES3 and tube optimized Rogue CMII. The lack of cabinet coloration in the R11s was a plus but the Harbeth's win by a mile delivering very natural, fatigue free high frequencies.

 

Thanks for sharing this. It’s making me rethink the R5! Not sure I wanna go down that road again though, haha. You referred to the second dealer as being “quality.” Was the first one not so? Even though they sell McIntosh?

My dealer just got a used pair of R900 in, and I’m going to check them out tomorrow. Probably going to be too much, but I am curious. I’m also going to borrow a Paradigm and/or KEF subwoofer, and the new NAD C 658 preamp/DAC, which I’m going to connect to that big HK 990 as a power amp. Come to think if it, both of those units have bass management to experiment with.

I could be playing with too many variables at once, but it sure is fun! Though probably not so much for the dealer; these guys have been super patient with me, and at this point I feel like I can’t go anyplace else, so I’m kinda limiting my options in terms of brands.

 

In my opinion based on your comments in these posts I do not believe you are going to like the R900 nor any of the Rx00 series because they will sound too dark for your taste based on what you like about the LS50 and are not willing to sacrifice just to buy another set of speakers. I would move onto another speaker manufacturer if you insist on a speaker upgrade or better yet I believe your next upgrade should be a preamplifier and amplifier upgrade. This will put you in a better position to truly evaluate speakers when the upgrade cycle comes around again, which it always does and realize that your current speaker budget is slightly too low so shoot higher next time.

 

Yes, you may be right. I don’t hate the Rx00, in fact I like it more than the new R series. But probably neither are the answer. The dealer also is not confident I’m going to like the R900 but my curiosity needs to be satisfied by at least hearing them in the shop.

As for the idea of saving up more money for speakers (something the dealer also suggested) I'm just not sure I want to spend more money on speakers. Even the ~$2.5 - 3k I'm considering now is probably more than I can justify spending. Although, interestingly enough, I saw this yesterday and found myself (briefly) thinking about making an offer on them! Kef Reference 3 Floor Standing Speaker Pair - Gloss Black - Demo Pair

So, if the amplification changes and subwoofer aren't the cure, I may have to look at another brand/dealer, but I hate to do that as these guys have been ultra helpful.

But I do find myself curious about the Monitor Audio Silver series...

 

Well, the R900 are in the house. Sounding nice so far. Plenty of bass
One concern is that they just look... oddly proportioned. The dual 8" woofers make the Uni-Q look comically small.
Also brought home a Paradigm Defiance X10 to try with my LS50, and the NAD C658 to try with the HK 990.

I came close to bringing home the Spendor A7 too, but we just weren't digging them for some reason. Also, $4,300 is probably outside my comfort zone for speakers.

 

Also, this is a used pair. The person who traded them in did so for the R11.

 

So, I was really enjoying the R900 last night. Only got about 40 minutes of listening in but they really have a nice, big sound. I switched back to the LS50 for a few minutes and they of course still sounded good but not as full and present. I'm far from deciding (havine't yet tried the sub with the LS50) but there's at least some promise here. I also don't know if I want to buy an obsolete model for $2,500!

It's interesting that in the new R series KEF is not using any 8" woofers. The biggest model, the R11, uses four 6.5" woofers. I guess more drivers + larger enclosure = similar or better bass? The R11's ±3dB low end response is specified at 46Hz, while the R900's is 40Hz. I know a manufacturer's published numbers certainly aren't definitive but it surprised me. (the -6dB in-room response is listed at 26Hz for the R11, but unfortunately not listed for the R900)

 

I'm really digging the R900. Maybe a tiny bit too much bass...

 

...and the presentation is possibly a little bit too much "in your face." But they're nice.
Makes me wonder what it is I'm missing about the new R series?

 

If I may ... speaker models becoming 'obsolete' is the way of the world, any model will become obsolete sooner or later so that should, in no way, affect your decision! My speakers have become obsolete for 25 years now but it doesn't stop me enjoying the hell out of them each and every day!