I understand that the black glass Ken-Rads are better in addition to being warmer than the clear glass In your experience, is this the case? @Strat-Mangler
Ah. Again, thanks for letting me know about the acronym you coined. Not a bad one, either. All depends on what you're looking for. From the last two years of paying attention, seems like most enjoy a neutral very detailed sound. From your description, I'd prefer the Elrogs. I'm currently using the EML 300B-XLS and they are definitely smoother than the stock ones but the difference wasn't close to what the preamp tubes accomplished so in that respect, there's far more for your tweaking dollar within those tubes than 300Bs... IMHO.
The clear glass are to be avoided at all costs!!!! They're utterly terrible. GE bought the factory and changed the entire manufacturing process resulting in a tube that can't even begin to compare with the coated glass ones made in the 40s and 50s. Buy a pair from TAS Audio. You'll get the real deal, no guesswork, and they'll truly measure NOS.
If I'm not mistaken, I believe you and I had a chat regarding the EMLs. I had them prior to getting the Elrogs. Don't get me wrong, I still love the Elrogs. I got the KR 300Bs to try them out in a new to me Golden Gate DAC. I actually had them up for sale the last two weeks since they didn't do the business in the DAC ( a KR 242 won out). I decided to play them over the weekend in the amp and loved them enough to cancel the audiogon listing I had up for them. They are leaner than the EMLs and the EMLs are leaner than the Elrogs. As usual, the delta of these comparisons are exaggerated for emphasis. I'm hoping the Bad Boys would be lower in gain than the TS BGRPs (as much as you want to give me credit for coining this, it wasn't my creation - a google search will prove this). I'm also expecting a more emphasized mid-range - something the KR 300Bs lack compared to the Elrogs. Worst case scenario, they are a simply flavor change from the TS BGRPs, and I have a spare, competent 6SN7 pair. One of my pair has a hairline fracture that has extended down to the base over time, and I am sure it's only a matter of time before it gives up the ghost. Best case, they complement the KR 300Bs much better than the TS BGRPs. It's worth noting that I'm using my Golden Gate DAC as a preamp, and gain matching is critical to which tubes I tend to prefer in the amp.
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1...?key=VjN1SHRiUWYxUGd0dk5qWTVQOEJNNXdMaEZ0RGZB Yesterday I inserted original Western Electric 300B made in 1930's to LM 508 amplifier. After I got LM 508 on Aug 2018 and I had done lot of tube rolling. Now I have Acme 805, 1944 Sylvania vt231(6SN7), Mullard ECC85(6SL7) and Synergistic Blue power cable and fuse with it. Isoacoustics Orea Bordeaux was under LM 508. I had been hesitant to try my original Western Electric 300B with LM 508 amplifier. After paying 3k$ for pair 17 years ago, I had run 10K hours on the tube with Silbatone 300B 8W SET amplifier. It still sound fine with 5K - 10K hours more remaining. But it is hard to get good NOS Western Electric 300B tube anymore and it get more expensive ( more than 6K for pair now). I had tried Sophia Carbon Plate 300B and Shuguang Treasure 300B on LM 508. With Sophia Carbon Plate, I got slightly deeper bass with more refined treble. With Shuguang Treasure, I got more details and tight and deeper bass with wider soundstage. Now with original Western Electric 300B, I got much more and cleaner details and tighter bass with transparent and wider and deeper soundstage. The most notable difference is more details and transparent soundstage. I had not expected that much improvement with original Western Electric 300B. After going back to Sophia Carbon Plate, it sound warm but boring with less details and less transparent sound. Thus I had to go back to original Western Electric 300B. When I play " Songbird" of Eva Cassidy with original Western Electric 300B, she appears to sing in front of me with spooky presence. Now I got into trouble. I do not want to put valuable original Western Electric 300B into LM 508. 20 years ago, replica of Western Electric had been made and I compared it with original Western Electric 300B. It turned out that replica was no match to original Western Electric 300B. Replica had crude and less details and narrower soundstage. Although they claim to make another replica of Western Electric 300B, I do not have much expectation from my previous experience. I placed order of Acme 300B tube yesterday. Acme 805 is the best new production tube with natural details and transparent soundstage. I do not expect Acme 300B to be better than original Western Electric 300B. But if Acme 300B is 90% as good as original Western Electric 300B, then I will use it with LM 508. Replica of Western Electric 300B made 20 years ago was only 70% as good as original Western Electric 300B.
Interesting to hear that the 300B had such an improvement on the LM. I would have thought the 805ia was effectively the same as the 508ia but maybe it isn't? My switch from the stock 300B tubes to the EML 300B XLS was barely noticeable.
EML300B may not be that good . I think it is as good as only Shuguang Treasure. But original WE 300B is special.
I expect to receive Acme 300B by Thursday or Friday. I will let my impression of it sometime this weekend.
Unlike most on this thread, I've experienced worthwhile improvement upgrading the 300B tube. Switching out the 805 also made a difference. I hope to get to try the 805 Acme in the nearnear fu. On another note, I'm demoing a Coincident Statement Linestage with the amp, and I'm highly impressed with what I'm hearing.
I think you'll really like the Acme 805. It was a very noticeable improvement for my 805ia. Kind of unfortunate that I am not hearing much of a difference in the 300B change or the external preamp modifications. I guess I save some money this way
I'm just adding a counterpoint so that others don't neglect the 300B. As in all things, experimentation is key.
@Strat-Mangler I've tried the EML XLS, which were a significant improvement over stock 300Bs. I upgraded to the Elrog 300Bs, which are an improvement but not to the extent the EMLs were over stock. I'm currently playing with KR 300b RKs, which I feel are closer to the Elrogs than the EMLs, but are definitely a different flavor. Regarding 805s, I've only upgraded the stock tubes up Psvane 805-AT
Summary of improvement on LM 508 1. Acme 805 (740$ well worth it) 2. 1944 Sylvania vt231 (125$ fantastic value) I bought one pair at 100$ and so much I like it, I ordered one more pair from the same dealer at 125$ as backup. He does not have them any more. Two pairs sound almost alike with 125$ pair very slight more details. 3. NOS WE 300B ( tight bass, wider soundstage, fantastic details but expensive and hard to get) 4. NOS Mullard ECC35(125$ from Ebay well worth it) 5. Synergistic Blue power cable( make sound faster and transparent) 6. Synergistci Blue fuse( make sound more refined , subtle effect) 7. Isoacoustics Orea Bordeaux ( subtle effect, more focused sound) No1. has the most effect and No7 has only subtle effect.
You need both but which one will provide you with the biggest upgrade? Depends on what you already have in there. If you're using stock tubes, I'd do the ECC35 (6SL7) first. Quickly do the 6SN7s after. Electro-Harmonix tubes are the absolute worst! Garbage tubes, all of them.
In that case, I'd do the Mullard ECC33 first. The NU tubes are good but the ECC33s will be better. The Tung-Sol VT-229 is a solid option, though the Mullard is still better but there will be a bigger difference between the NU & ECC33 than the TS & ECC35, IMHO. The NU are lush, some might say a little too much. It's a dark sound. The Tung-Sol VT-229 likely compensates a bit. The ECC33 will retain most of the warmth but will also liven things up by introducing more presence into the sound. The ECC35 with the NU would probably be way too syrupy. Too much of a good thing.
Absolutely. If it works for you and you can hear an audible difference, by all means, go for it. I wish it did for me. I was hoping for it but didn't hear it with the EML XLS.
This guy is definitely an upgrade over the VC in my DAC, which was an improvement over the integrated VC of the 508ia. I'll be sad when it goes back to its owner.
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1...?key=VjN1SHRiUWYxUGd0dk5qWTVQOEJNNXdMaEZ0RGZB I received Psavne Acme 300B tube around noon today(Thursday). It had been shipped from China on Tuesday using DHL express. It took only two days to get here in Washington State US. I bought it from here. Psvane Acme Serie 300B Hi-end Vacuum Tube Replace I inserted it into LM508 and played some music. Without burn in, it sounds refined with clean details and transparent sound. Acme 300B remind me of Acme 805. With Acme 805 and 300B in LM508, it sound musical with transparent window. They seems to have synergy in my LM 508. After running Acme 300B for 100 hours in LM 508, I will compare Acme 300B with NOS WE 300B in Silbatone 300B SET amplifier. I will keep it updated Thomas
