New Netflix David Fincher series - Mindhunter

Discussion in 'Visual Arts' started by mattright, Oct 15, 2017.

  1. etzeppy

    etzeppy Forum Resident

    Texas, US
    I liked this series a lot. Movies & TV shows about serial killers have been done to death (excuse the pun). Mindhunter managed to do something fresh. I am looking forward to season 2. Bringing this around to music, I liked the use of In The Light with the final scene.
    painted8 likes this.
  2. The Holden character is a bit "off" and settles beautifully into the role as the season carries on.

    I personally feel that their personal lives ARE important to these particular stories. We need to know where they are coming from and what they are going through too.

    For me it makes the stories so much richer than just running down and interviewing serial killers. It's like in Manhunter (not Mindhunter) and the other Lechter books and films, where these guys sometimes get into the heads of the profilers. It is important to see and experience that.
  3. Deesky

    Deesky Forum Resident

    Agreed. I wasn't going to watch this because I needed to see another show about serial killers like I needed another hole in my head. But I kept reading the positive comments in this thread and noticing positive reviews elsewhere, so decided to watch. I liked it and agree about the fresh approach.
    Yes, I do too. It helps to know what's driving these characters and where they're coming from, because it will influence how they go about their jobs. If the whole focus was just on serial killers, it wouldn't interest me at all (it's not a genre I'm normally attracted to).

    So, it's the interpersonal aspect of the show which made it very enjoyable for me.
    turnersmemo likes this.
  4. Captain Groovy

    Captain Groovy Forum Resident

    Freedonia, USA
    He's one of, if not THE most important man/monster to give insight into profiling. Dahmer, Manson - those guys are more famous, but not as important to the education process as Kemper.

    I'm a huge fan of John Douglas and the late Roy Hazlewood (he just passed away in 2016 - he was the first Agent who began dividing between "Organized" and "Disorganized" killers ). Assuming the main characters are based on several of these guys - obviously their names have been changed while others (like Kemper) have remained. Historical fiction.

    These FBI guys are incredible - good timing with Kemper - the FBI starts seeing the value of getting into their minds and thinking like they think... when someone like Kemper, the most repulsive living monster of them all (still alive!) likes to talk and "help" law enforcement, it's key. Of course, they have to think like him (or any other monster) to find out true motivation. That, in itself, took a major change of thinking - from throwing these "monsters" into seclusion, locked up... really gave you no insight into helping stop/solve crimes for the future.

    Imagine if they could have gotten their hands on the mind of Albert Fish or any number of famous and dead "one-offs" (which they weren't).

    So Kemper should feature a lot in this, especially if based on the book. At least early on.

    For those who are into the FBI Profiling program they created (brilliant), I'm fascinated by John Douglas' book Cases That Haunt Us where he and his colleagues go about profiling old, technically unsolved murder mysteries (like Jack the Ripper) and go through who is most likely to have done it. And in lieu of that person, a person with the same profile.

    I thought people would be really disappointed with the show as it is more procedural than what serial killer-based shows really are. But I really enjoyed it and glad people didn't dump this because the Agents aren't being hunted personally, or vice versa.

    I mean, it's really a prequel of sorts to Silence of the Lambs if you want to think of it that way a bit. John Douglas was the consultant on that film - apparently Scott Glenn, tough guy who basically plays Douglas in the film couldn't handle what he was actually dealing with, he had to stop his "education" of listening/watching - too sick for him. This gang of FBI Agents led directly to how that story was told.

    Not really a spoiler since he's introduced in the first scene of every episode, but Season 2 should show us how they used profiling to hunt and catch BTK.

  5. Purplefowler

    Purplefowler Forum Resident

    Bedfordshire, uk
    Brilliant series, really enjoyed it and was gutted when I got to the end of it. It’s a fascinating subject and the show was really well done. Great soundtrack too. Really looking forward to the next season
  6. But wasn't the BTK killer caught in waaaaaay after our current timeline? 2005. I don't really think this is a spoiler, but I put tags around it anyway, but with BTK I don't see how they can address him in the late '70s, only perhaps showing him in "action," yet obviously he's a long way from getting caught.

    That said, I'm still not finished with the series, which sucks, but with the Astros in the World Series, various things surrounding the holidays, and my kids wanting to watch Stranger Things, I simply haven't been able to finish.
    painted8 and Vidiot like this.
  7. yesstiles

    yesstiles Forum Resident

    A vile specimen yes, but I can think of far worse.
    GodShifter and Deesky like this.
  8. Captain Groovy

    Captain Groovy Forum Resident

    Freedonia, USA
    You're right about your "Possible Spoiler" which is always weird to say when we do know the timeline (at least somewhat).

    So IMO since it's about Season 2 (and hopefully beyond) - we'll be watching Rader's progression. We already know why he was caught, and it wasn't from evidence he left behind at any of the scenes of the crimes. Perhaps a series arc. I'm fine with them showing him doing one step at a time as the intro scene before the credits every time. I'm digging the device. Enjoy the rest!

    Oh yeah - didn't want to get into "Kemper is the worst monster" thing. That's an entirely other debatable subject - and I'm sure your picks for worst of the worst are just as valid!

    I just can't envision anything worse than what Kemper did. He didn't torture the victims pre-death, I guess that's the one thing. And he didn't eat anyone, though we know he used the kitchen sink for other purposes.

    More evil people, yes. Anyone who tortures first is more evil IMO. I'd say Gacy was inherently more evil, but what Kemper did absolutely blows my mind - try to envision all of these crimes happening, and Kemper's actions are the one I just cannot even see in my mind's eye it's so ****ed up.

    Vidiot likes this.
  9. Luckless Pedestrian

    Luckless Pedestrian Forum Resident

    New Hampshire, USA
    Brilliant final sequence (In The Light). Ten episodes building up to one perfect scene. Fantastic work by all.
    Tristero likes this.
  10. daglesj

    daglesj Forum Resident

    Norfolk, UK
    Started watching this last night. It's gripping and excellent. Well exceeded my expectations so far.
  11. Splungeworthy

    Splungeworthy Forum Rezidentura

    Fantastic show. I'm only two episodes in and I am hooked. I'm still shaking from the whole Ed Kemper sequence-that's some of the most chilling acting I've seen since "Silence Of The Lambs"-just amazing.
    Luckless Pedestrian likes this.
  12. Binni

    Binni Forum Resident

    In the 80s, really?!
  13. jupiterboy

    jupiterboy Forum Residue

    Buffalo, NY
    Really liked it.
  14. Lightworker

    Lightworker Forum Resident

    Baltimore, MD
    Most of the U.S.A. still looked pretty much like 1974 in 1979. The noticeable changes came later with Reaganism and the rise of Silicon Valley.
    jupiterboy likes this.
  15. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Hollywood, USA
    The Americans with Disabilities Act actually happened in 1990, but I never saw widespread wheelchair ramps on public sidewalks in LA before the 1980s. That much I'm sure. I think Mindhunter's attention to detail is one of the things that makes it an exceptionally well-done show.
    googlymoogly likes this.
  16. GodShifter

    GodShifter Negative Creep®

    Dallas, TX, USA
    I just finished the season and thought it was excellent, but Holden’s girlfriend has to be one of the worst actresses I’ve ever seen. That includes Sofia Coppola in “The Godfather III”. Good lord, she’s TERRIBLE!
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2017
    Brenald79 and Captain Groovy like this.
  17. Malina

    Malina Forum Resident

    I don't believe you are correct about Hazelwood. It seems that the most credit is given to Robert Ressler and Douglas and also Hazelwood working from Ressler's work. Here is some information:

    In 1974, the FBI formed its Behavioral Science Unit to investigate serial rape and homicide cases. From 1976 to 1979, several FBI agents--most famously John Douglas and Robert Ressler--interviewed 36 serial murderers to develop theories and categories of different types of offenders.

    Most notably, they developed the idea of the "organized/disorganized dichotomy":

    Psychological sleuths--Criminal profiling: the reality behind the myth

    Roy Hazelwood sat next to Douglas. A lean chain-smoker, Hazelwood specialized in sex crimes, and went on to write the best-sellers “Dark Dreams” and “The Evil That Men Do.” Beside Hazelwood was an ex-Air Force pilot named Ron Walker. Walker, Douglas writes, was “whip smart” and an “exceptionally quick study.” The three bureau men and the two detectives sat around a massive oak table. “The objective of our session was to keep moving forward until we ran out of juice,” Douglas writes. They would rely on the typology developed by their colleague Robert Ressler, himself the author of the true-crime best-sellers “Whoever Fights Monsters” and “I Have Lived in the Monster.” The goal was to paint a picture of the killer—of what sort of man BTK was, and what he did, and where he worked, and what he was like—and with that scene “Inside the Mind of BTK” begins.

    The Difficulties of Criminal Profiling

    real FBI agent John Douglas, who served as the inspiration for the character of Holden Ford. Douglas' partner was Robert Ressler, a fellow FBI agent and the inspiration for Bill Tench.

    Who Is Bill Tench From 'Mindhunter'? The Real FBI Agent Behind The Character Was Known For Talking To Serial Killers

    Ressler's book is Whoever Fights Monsters and it's better than Mind Hunters per I highly recommend this book - I read it when it came out over 20 years ago and I've read lots of true crime and serial killer books.

    "Indispensable reading for serial killer mavens, and better written than John Douglas and Mark Olshaker's Mindhunter"
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2017
    Brenald79, GodShifter and yesstiles like this.
  18. GodShifter

    GodShifter Negative Creep®

    Dallas, TX, USA
    As someone who’s read two Douglas books and the Ressler’s, I found Douglas’s efforts to be more entertaining and informative. Ressler came off as a follower, as unfair as that might sound.
    Malina likes this.
  19. Captain Groovy

    Captain Groovy Forum Resident

    Freedonia, USA
    Why are you so adamant about denigrating Hazelwood? What did he do to you? You're linking to things and adding bolding... to swerve away from his accomplishments.

    People can google "Roy Hazelwood" and make their own judgement! Of course I stand by what I said about Roy Hazelwood.

  20. Malina

    Malina Forum Resident

    No surprise there!
  21. Brenald79

    Brenald79 Forum Resident

    I thought the same thing. I couldn't stand watching her.
    GodShifter likes this.
  22. MrGrumpy

    MrGrumpy Forum Resident

    I just finished a binge-watch. It started off strongly, but by the end devolved into boring office politics and domestic drama. I don't care for the guys' "boss," and - like most Australian actresses - Anna Torv overdoes the American accent.
  23. GodShifter

    GodShifter Negative Creep®

    Dallas, TX, USA
    I thought Anna Torv was very good and quite hot (which certainly doesn’t hurt).
  24. Vidiot

    Vidiot Now in 4K HDR!

    Hollywood, USA
    That is scary and as unsettling as ****. One of the highlights of the show by far.
  25. Ghostworld

    Ghostworld Forum Resident

    I'm having a real problem getting into this show because the young lead actor is just soooooo television. He's so plastic. He's supposed to 29 but his Jesse Eisenberg-skewed naivete act places him around 16. He reminds me of Dennis on "It's Always Sunny in Phila" and it's bothering me. They're trying to build the "history of serial killers" so hard the dialogue feels really forced. I'll watch another, but it's kinda just passable.
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2017

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