New Rega Planar 3 sounds...OK

Sure. The Elys shrunk my gonads and left me sterile*.







* the Elys did not actually render me sterile. I think. Your mileage may vary.
.

 

I'd like to see your source for that.
-Bill

 

Well, for one, how about a review that a Rega booster linked to on this very forum? Were you the one who posted the link below Bill? From:

Rega Planar 8/Apheta 2 review | What Hi-Fi?

I take the following quote:

"Rega believes that mass absorbs energy and that ends up taking the life out of the music."

Hmmm, so which is it fellas? High mass absorbs energy that takes the life out of the music, or low mass and rigidity somehow magically dissipate said energy?

Of course, I won't even highlight Reichert's comments about his sense that at least some of the boogey he hears in Regas comes from the extremely lively plinth design that bounces energy, albeit slightly delayed, back into the tonearm and cartridge. Or maybe I will.

 

...real scientific...

 

I thought the famous Rega boogie and PRAT was from the fact that many models (possibly not the newest models) ran slightly fast.

 

The plinth mass thing seems pretty simple to me. A lightweight plinth can’t transfer vibration into the heavier platter nearly as well as a heavy plinth can.

 

I got that one out a couple of years ago, gave it a bath and a listen and was rather shocked at how bad it sounded. Hadn't recalled it as such from back in the day. Plastic Ono Band was better, but Paul sure had way better sounding albums.

 

the advent baby 2 speakers arent really going to show off a turntable that costs 3x more than they do.

 

have to agree...

 

I believe the reason is much more simple. It´s easier to make money with a light TT, and it´s easier to ship. Technically there is no advantage; in each case it´s about the relation between; mass, rigidity and inner damping.
I wouldn´t pay much trust in What Hi-Fi writes though.

 

That's not what you attributed to him as a quote. You said that he: "argues that energy that gets "sunk" into high mass plinths dissipates into that mass, is essentially swallowed up by that mass and lost." He does not. heck, that would be ideal. Unfortunately it isn't so simple or all you'd have to do is keep stacking weight onto a player to make it sound better. Every mechanical engineer and physicist understands that higher mass objects retain energy more effectively than lower mass objects. Higher mass objects have more potential energy, period. You can design a high mass object with damping that will dissipate energy, but most turntable plinths do not. That is a complex structure and gets expensive. The most common example of a heavy plinth is a heavy acrylic or a heavy wood slab, both store energy longer than a lighter material. What Gandy has stated repeatedly is that the energy in a higher mass plinth is released more slowly than a lower mass plinth, which results in a smearing of transients. By reducing the weight of the plinth, you reduce the duration of energy storage. You also can't transfer that energy from the lighter plinth into the heavier platter. Platter weight is good. That's another topic. The arm that Reha designed has a complex shape that will not pass energy at any one frequency (a musical note for instance) as effectively as a uniform tube from end to end. The result is a filter that blocks frequencies from traveling its full length, thus blocking a feedback loop from being established between the arm and the plinth. That's why most people, not just reviewers, describe the sound of the Rega decks as being more immediate, punchy, lively, etc than the sound from heavier tables, which in turn are described as slower, muddier, etc.

I'm not sure why you would care to attempt to twist his words though. I mean, if you have a point, you would be better off using real quotes rather than manipulating them.
-Bill

 

I agree. There is however an advantage between a lighter table and a heavier table, each with no damping. Sure, you can create either type in very complex forms to be effective, but it is more sensible to produce a product that people can afford. That's why they also offer six different models of table / arm systems. Surely you don't think the most affordable sounds better than the most expensive? Please note that the most expensive utilizes the lightest plinth and the heaviest platter, among other things. I can't afford their most expensive table myself. But I have been a customer for a very long time and I find very good value in their products at their various price points.
-Bill

 

i appreciate your posts, and find them instructive. while i know you are a Rega dealer, i also find you be impartial..

quick question..why do Rega MC carts require 69 dB of gain (this is what the Rega phono stages apply in MC mode)...

 

Thanks. They don't require a specific level of gain, it's just best to use something that is within a compatible range, say 60db - 70db. It's not specific to Rega, rather it applies to all cartridges. It is just conversion of the output voltage of the cartridge into a higher voltage that the linestage is designed to use. Most linestages expect to see somewhere from 1v - 2v input signal level. A LOMC cartridge (which the Rega MC carts are) typically have outputs of only .25mv - .35mv and so they require a lot more gain that a MM cart, which has about 20x that amount or around 5mv. So a LOMC preamp has above 60db gain and a MM preamp only about 40db. There are differing thoughts amoung audiophiles (if you can image that for a moment) about what an "ideal" gain level is and many point to charts drawn-up by some, but I find that I generally prefer to use as little gain as I have to in order to do the job. Too much gain sounds colder and more dynamic than natural IME. All preamps sound a bit different as do cartridges, so you can many times find that a particular cartridge sounds better with a particular gain setting on whatever preamp you are using in your system. lots of variables there, so trying to carve some universal figure in stone isn't the best practice.
-Bill

 

Thanks. All makes sense.

I do note that the Rega MC phono stage offers low and high output, 63 dB and 69 dB, but they say set it for high for all Rega carts.

I did try my Ania with a phono stage that had 61 dB of gain and it was just not enough. I then switched to one with 66 dB of gain and it
was much more enjoyable.

I also would think that in general, the least amount of gain you can get away with is best, or at least just enough to preserve the original dynamic range.

Although one would think more gain would improve the S/N ratio.

 

gave my Imagine another cleaning and it did sound better..but then I put on Rory Gallagher/Against The Grain, released just a few years after Imagine and
it sounded so much better.

 

Too much gain will also create distortion and clipping, which isn't good.

In terms of solid state phono preamps with a high gain setting for MC carts, most of the ones under $500 have a noticeable drop in S/N per the manufacturers' specs the higher you set the gain. But since the output of some LOMCs is so low, it's a tradeoff I guess.

 

Very interesting. A conundrum of sorts in fact!

 

Is the distortion being heard IGD on the inner tracks? Just a bad alignment maybe?

I have a Planar 3 (80's era) with a Denon DL110, no distortion whatsoever and sounds as good as anything I need - I used to have Ortofon 2m Red and then Blue but these I could never get set up without IGD.

 

..decided to put on Plastic Ono Band, and that sounds fantastic. So Imagine was just real crappy pressing and/or mastering.

The 24/96 download of the original mix blows the LP away.

 

Obviously the main problem is the speakers next to the table (which you’re addressing).
But also the (lack of) resolving power of the rest of your system is likely holding back what the P3 is giving you. Speakers and electronics not up to it. Specially the speakers...
Not what you want to hear but that’s part of this slippery slope....

 

I do not pretend to be an expert I just related my experience with a Rega turntable

 

The turntable was setup by a Rega dealer, and he said the hum was normal on that turntable, due to the motor very close to the spindle, in order to get more precise speed pitch.
The distortion was probably connected to the Elys2 as other people have experienced. Changed the stylus and the distortion was still there. So I changed the table

 

Your dealer is either misinformed or dishonest. I'm going with dishonest.

 

Yes, two in fact for a total of 4mm. I don't use the dustcover, so not an issue for me.